Die's for bending tube ? Mandrel ?

[busastars]

Right we all know the story behind mandrel bends etc, it would not be to difficult for someone on hear clever with a lathe to work out how to make some mandrels.
From what I have read and seen on other forums and websites you can get very nice bends without using madrels dependant on what tube is used and the raidias of the bend and even doing the sand technique. For me I dont want to get to technicaly involved just able to bend tube nice to a certin home user level.

Right all this aside I will post again hear below with what I have bought.

 

[busastars]

Right here we go, im sure someone can point me in the right direction and tell me what make it is, I was well chuffed after I pulled it out to have a good look today. From what ive found die's are mega expensive, I got 9 die's. The dies are Hillmore & Record.

The Bender:

The Die's Hillmore & Record:

 

[dannyweld]

what i have and what i want is'nt always the same thing!

 

[Sam]

If I remember correctly the rad for the formers should be 3.5 x the dia of tube being bent so in theory 25mm tube should have a rad of 87.5 that being the tightest rad.
and to get the lenght of pipe required to make a bend is


CLR= CENTRE LINE RADIUS
DOB=DEGREE OF BEND

Lenght of tube in bend = CLR X DOB X 0.1745

OR

L = (R X .01745) x Z

L is the lenght of pipe
R is radius of the pipe bend
Z is the angle of the bend

here is a couple of pictures of a mod. using the head off a record bender.

 

[hotrodder]

Not entirely true....

The blind chicken bender is a rotary draw bender but they don't necessarily make a mess of thin wall tube, certainly the rotary draw bender I built (http://www.thefont.info/tube_bender.htm) will bend 16 gauge 1"OD. Then again, I only made a 1" former for it.

The JD2 is a compression bender, and runs the guide round the former, ratyher than dragging the tube across the guide. This allows you to alter the "bend pressure" which is essentially the amount the point where the force is being applied leads the point where the bend is occurring. Whether you can actually do that on a JD2 I don't know, but I should imagine you could.

Playing with the bend pressure will alter the amount of "sausaging" that occurs, but beyond a certain point the tube wall will start rippling.

My bender is a compression bender and I've got a 3" RR former that I use for 2" OD 16gauge exhaust tube. It doesn't do mandrel bends, but it does do bends and not collapse the tube.

If I could be arsed, I could pack the tube and plug the ends before I bent it and get better looking bends. The thought of having a container of sand near what was a pretty expensive machine also puts me off...

Another problem with thinwall tube is that it tends to be ERW, and ERW comes in different grades. I think ERW1 is the softest, basically cheese, and that bends quite readily, the other end of the scale (ERW5?, not sure don't use much of it...) tends to kink even in quite thick walls and gentle radii.

Stainless is a problem with a compression bender as it's not particularly malleable. Can be done, but don't expect 100% success. Or any at all....

It's about picking the right tube as much as it is having the right bender. CFS3 seamless comes in three conditions BK,GK, and NBK That's as milled, annealed, and normalised (IIRC...). All of those will bend differently, as milled or normalsied in a Clarke "push through" pipe kinker, are a problem, the annealed stuff might not be. I've had limited experience with using the kinker...

Similar is CFS360, but that's more bender friendly.

Bottom line is that the tool you need will depend on what you want to do with it.

Good points, i was a little too general even for a generalisation. Somehow i got stuck on bending tube for exhausts/manifolds as an alternative to working with pre-formed (typically stainless) mandrel bends

 

[Blackjack]

Good points, i was a little too general even for a generalisation. Somehow i got stuck on bending tube for exhausts/manifolds as an alternative to working with pre-formed (typically stainless) mandrel bends

I bend quite a bit of tube.

Not a very good pic as it's illustrating something to do with bending and not the bender itself, but it's mine.

90 bend in 2" OD 1/8" wall, 7 seconds.

I've got formers from 3/4" to 2" in 1/8" increments missing out 1 3/8" and 1 7/8", with two radii for 1 1/2", 1 3/4" and 2".

It's amazing the number of times that I get asked if I can bend something and don't have a former....

Busastars, did you get any guides with that? Square section pieces of steel/ally with a semicircular recess in one face?

Looks like conduit formers going on the sizes I can see on them.

I know a guy who was looking at making cast formers for those, if you're interested I can ask him where he's got to with it....

 

[Shox Dr]

That's a Record bender, Busa.

I bought the plans from Frank @ Gotrikes, they use Protools Dies. The bender he designed uses 2" box, basicaly he reverse engineered a Protools bender. I just bought the plans for the dims and built as Protools do.

Breaks down for easy storage.



(the new turret punch was delivered Tuesday, should be up and running Tomorrow, do you still want the cones doing)

 

[Jaeger_S2k]

Right here we go, im sure someone can point me in the right direction and tell me what make it is, I was well chuffed after I pulled it out to have a good look today. From what ive found die's are mega expensive, I got 9 die's. The dies are Hillmore & Record.

The Bender:

The Die's Hillmore & Record:

Either Gilmore, Record (now Invine) or many other brands could even be a painted up Rothenberger. Original use will have been for steel conduit which once bent will have gone through a thread maker and then coupled together.
Where/are also used in industrial gas installations.

 

[busastars]

Busastars, did you get any guides with that? Square section pieces of steel/ally with a semicircular recess in one face?

Looks like conduit formers going on the sizes I can see on them.

I know a guy who was looking at making cast formers for those, if you're interested I can ask him where he's got to with it....[/QUOTE]

Yeh I got all the guide's, they are in the pic just not a good pic.

I can work with the die's I got, its just a good start for me, I do plan on making my own dies but it all takes time.

Ahh so I got a Record bender, Im gessing there good, seams realy well put together and it weighs quite a bit. From what I have seen I have got a major bargin I hope, well im happy with it . Im sure I will post future projects up when I get round to using it.

 

[Welderpaul]

Been doing quite a bit of research on tube benders, and find myself going 'HOW MUCHHHHH!!!' quite often.
Decided on a rotary draw bender - Ercolina seems to be the dogs danglies, and looks like i'm going to part with 5k for a machine and a few dies.
This is the machine in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6T1VJ0DIWo

Always managed to get round not having one - subbing out the bending, or using weld bends. Job next week doing 2 x 11 storeys of handrails up a stair, both sides - all single flat rails - short lengths, no site jointing - don't fancy all the grinding associated with using weld bends, plus nice shiny steel that is powdercoated looks great until you get to the waisted section where the welds have been ground flush.
First job for it - cycle stands! not going to buy them in this time!

 

[Shox Dr]

5k is alot of money, the bender in the pictures in my post above cost me less than 200quid to build and that includes £120 for the 1.125" die and follower. And I have to say it I haven't seem a better made bend yet. I was going to buy more dies this yr but the USD/GBP rate is so bad I'll hold out for a bit

 

[dannyweld]

if your after a bender check out the euromac digibend range,tube bender, press, iron worker, punch, former, wire worker. if i didnt have access to one i would have to buy it tomarrow. you can even fit tools and dies into it.



you can pick them up second hand around the uk, and it will hold its value.

 

[busastars]

I would like to say how much mine cost but I still shocked myself, but around a 1/4 of the price of one die.


BUT

Now look at the interest in tube benders, there are alot of us that want to do our own, surly someone on here is good enough to knock out some mandrels to fit in some standard size tubes at a cheap price.

 

[""kb]

Hi to all you guys in this thread, I have been reading all your posts on here with interest and I dont want to offend anyone but there is not a single bender that any of you have that will accept a mandrel, also mandrels tend to be used on hydraulic machines used for production as in hundreds or thousands of, also the mention of exhaust making is the main for most people who wish to own a bender and if it is stainless steel exhaust tube that needs to be bent then dont waste your time if you dont own a hydraulic mandrel bender because you will either just make the tube completely collapse or have very flat bends, like I said I dont want to offend anyone but hope it will make someone re think and save them some time and money.

 

[Sam]

Hi to all you guys in this thread, I have been reading all your posts on here with interest and I dont want to offend anyone but there is not a single bender that any of you have that will accept a mandrel, also mandrels tend to be used on hydraulic machines used for production as in hundreds or thousands of, also the mention of exhaust making is the main for most people who wish to own a bender and if it is stainless steel exhaust tube that needs to be bent then dont waste your time if you dont own a hydraulic mandrel bender because you will either just make the tube completely collapse or have very flat bends, like I said I dont want to offend anyone but hope it will make someone re think and save them some time and money.

I am glad you cleared that up you also forgot to mention the the price they cost!

 

[brightspark]

Right here we go, im sure someone can point me in the right direction and tell me what make it is, I was well chuffed after I pulled it out to have a good look today. From what ive found die's are mega expensive, I got 9 die's. The dies are Hillmore & Record.

The Bender:

The Die's Hillmore & Record:

ive got a hilmore bender got chucked out at work just cos it wasnt getting used anything bigger than 22 mm u have to be well endowed to use it

 

[madkayaker]

that looks a lot like my record one. got from work as it was heading for scrap not used in last 15 years

 

[busastars]

Carnt remember what I paid for it now but wasent alot, ebay bargin and was local. Best bit was all the die's included.

Only used it once so far but once my workshop/shed is finished I will be playin alot more.

 

[madkayaker]

£10 i paid for mine with all the dies i will use.

 

[brightspark]

£10 i paid for mine with all the dies i will use.

thats expensive i waited till they put mine in the skip along with a 1 and a half tonne chain hoist then duly recovered them