SmartWerks
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What you use to clean parts before painting or powder coating,it doesn't leave a residue as it quickly evaporates. I will go and check to see what it contains.
- Thread starter mark williams
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SmartWerks
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It's bodyline body wipe I've got, did buy it many years back. All it says on the container is it contains petroleum distillates. Had a look on browns brothers website, they used to have a place on bumpers lane which is long gone,but not couldn't find it.
Panel wipe is mostly naphtha aka petroleum distillates regardless of the name on the can for example http://www.hex.co.uk/MSDS/upol/s20panelwipe.pdf
As Paul and Hitch i only bother degreasing stuff when necessary for example... http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/media/albums/another-beetle-tank.583/ the only parts of that got degreased with brake cleaner (also mostly naphtha) were the relief for the fuel sender as the dies were lubed with soap and the annular ring welded underneath it as anything that's been near my lathe or drill press ends up covered in oil. Most of the welding prep consisted of peeling back the plastic and scraping the cut edges if they hadn't just been trimmed to fit
As Paul and Hitch i only bother degreasing stuff when necessary for example... http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/media/albums/another-beetle-tank.583/ the only parts of that got degreased with brake cleaner (also mostly naphtha) were the relief for the fuel sender as the dies were lubed with soap and the annular ring welded underneath it as anything that's been near my lathe or drill press ends up covered in oil. Most of the welding prep consisted of peeling back the plastic and scraping the cut edges if they hadn't just been trimmed to fit
I believe so, the stuff has an 'oily' feel to it. Methylated spirits doesn't
ajlelectronics
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That's why you should use fast panel wipe. The slow stuff is just like white spirit. Some dealers will try to fob you off with that.
SmartWerks
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Thanks for the tip, although I do go over with a heat gun to ensure no residue is left and any fuzzies are gone but when I run out i will take your advice.
SmartWerks
I think the Phosgene thing is a bit of an urban myth............One I have heard many times myself. I thought about it and I have never heard of anyone suffering from phosgene poisoning. Its highly toxic so I think someone would have suffered ???
This is a description of phosgene..........PS its deadly before you can even smell it
Phosgene is an insidious poison as the odor may not be noticed and symptoms may be slow to appear.[18] The odor detection threshold for phosgene is 0.4 ppm, four times the threshold limit value. Its high toxicity arises from the action of the phosgene on the proteins in the pulmonary alveoli, the site of gas exchange: their damage disrupts the blood-air barrier, causing suffocation. It reacts with the amines of the proteins, causing crosslinking by formation of urea-like linkages, in accord with the reactions discussed above. Phosgene detection badges are worn by those at risk of exposure.[4]
I must admit Im not sure but I have a feeling it may apply to Carbon Tetrachloride. I believe it is now banned but it used to be a solvent and it was used in fire extinguishers even though it did turn to phosgene under heat..........I know its incredible isnt it
Wikipedia says.
Carbon tetrachloride is one of the most potent hepatotoxins (toxic to the liver), and is widely used in scientific research to evaluate hepatoprotective agents.[5][6]
Carbon tetrachloride has practically no flammability at lower temperatures. Under high temperatures in air, it forms poisonous phosgene.
We used to use loads of it
I dont know how many other solvents contain Chlorine but if they do they could create phosgene. I dont know if brake cleaner does
brightspark
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i once sprayed a bike frame using the original hammerite and carbon tet thinners in a garrage with a gas ring underneath as it was cold inside, after 10 minutes i remember feeling lousy and put the gun down and layed on the floor out for the count 
fortunately the draught from under the door brought me round . no wonder they dont use it in fire extinguishers any more . years ago there wasnt the information that u can get freely nowadays
fortunately the draught from under the door brought me round . no wonder they dont use it in fire extinguishers any more . years ago there wasnt the information that u can get freely nowadays
brightspark
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nail varnish remover
Firbreglass suppliers are a good call for acetone
Both chlorinated and non-chlorinated brake cleaner are available in the States and as far as i can work out this is the source of the semi recent recent hysteria about the stuff that refuses to go away... warning, contains utter drivel http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html
I don't know if we ever had the chlorinated flavour in Europe but i've certainly never seen any and up until a couple of years ago most (all?) tins of brake cleaner bore the legend 'contains no chlorinated hydrocarbons' or words to that effect. Not so common these days maybe as chlorinated solvents have been mostly banned or at least restricted? That said I bought 5 litres the other day and one of the first statments on the back of the container is 'contains no chloride solvents'. Look at the MSDS and it's mostly naphtha with a little acetone
Both chlorinated and non-chlorinated brake cleaner are available in the States and as far as i can work out this is the source of the semi recent recent hysteria about the stuff that refuses to go away... warning, contains utter drivel http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html
I don't know if we ever had the chlorinated flavour in Europe but i've certainly never seen any and up until a couple of years ago most (all?) tins of brake cleaner bore the legend 'contains no chlorinated hydrocarbons' or words to that effect. Not so common these days maybe as chlorinated solvents have been mostly banned or at least restricted? That said I bought 5 litres the other day and one of the first statments on the back of the container is 'contains no chloride solvents'. Look at the MSDS and it's mostly naphtha with a little acetone
Brake cleaner or acetone? Both are along with many other strong solvents as they're very good at stripping oils from skin and can cause dermatitis, eczema and allergies. Mentioned towards the end of the thread Paul linked to back on page one
Tigman
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" Brake cleaner or acetone? Both are along with many other strong solvents as they're very good at stripping oils from skin and can cause dermatitis, eczema and allergies. Mentioned towards the end of the thread Paul linked to back on page one"
Acetone is used for nail varnish remover ! dodgy or what ?
Acetone is used for nail varnish remover ! dodgy or what ?
Many years ago, working at Mullards factory in Southampton, girls on one test line were developing cracking head aches, and going sick all the time. They were testing infra-red devices. Heat source was a bunsen flame, and the devices were liquid cooled with a solvent (not sure what). Turns out that the solvent vapour de-composed to phosgene and they were breathing it
They didn't believe it to be an urban myth
Many years ago, working at Mullards factory in Southampton, girls on one test line were developing cracking head aches, and going sick all the time. They were testing infra-red devices. Heat source was a bunsen flame, and the devices were liquid cooled with a solvent (not sure what). Turns out that the solvent vapour de-composed to phosgene and they were breathing it
They didn't believe it to be an urban myth
I bet they didnt. I assume none were killed which leads me to be a bit sceptical. Phosgene was used as a chemical weapon. These girls were breathing it so its either a crap chemical weapon or they didnt breathe much or they didnt breathe any at all. As I said before there are loads of these stories........it may well be absolutely true. Im just thinking out loud. Breathing "ordinary" solvent fumes all day could well give you a headache maybe dehydration as well.
I dont know which scenario is correct
Obviously you should avoid breathing anything other than fresh air, even chemicals that are deemed "safe". As I said earlier Carbon Tet (and Asbestos) werent considered harmful. Im just a bit sceptical about this phosgene thing..............thats all
As Hotrodder said...........Chlorinated solvents are rare or may even be banned..........Phosgene contains Chloride
Parm
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Ok, as some of you may know I'm an industrial hygienist for a day job (specialise in measuring what people get exposed to as a result of THIER job and understanding how it may cause harm) I thought I might take a few moments to provide some professional information on this subject.
Firstly many years ago most degreasing solvents contained chlorinated hydrocarbons such as trichloroethylene, this has been banned under the Montreal protocol as it depletes the ozone layer and is a suspected carcinogen. There are some industries that cannot use other degreasers such as aerospace and MOD, as there is years of information that suggests thus stuff doesn't damage or affect metal. These have special dispensation and are required to use closed loop systems with vapour recovery technology and have to prove on a regular basis that they retain the same amount of solvent as they purchased. Dow is the only company that manufactures this solvent and the closed loop systems cost upwards of £100K.
Any chlorinated solvent is bad news and amongst other things can give off phosgene and other nasties that are even more dangerous.
Most degreasing solvents and in particular brake cleaner are generic low boiling point distillates that are generally clean and don't give off any nasty break down products. This has been ver very well researched in the F1 industry where brake cleaner is generally slopped around like water.
These do have a defatting action on the epidermis layer of the skin thus making it more susceptible to exposure from other sources. For example, mechanics using brake cleaner are at increased risk when exposed to used engine oil on THIER skins. Used engine oil contains poly aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) which are potent carcinogens.
In direct response to post 35 above, I suspect that the solvent was Genklene and yes it will have produced a cocktail of substances but unlikely it was phosgene as this has a very acute impact on the human body.
Even with the modern solvents that are so called safe there are still almost always some degree if impact on the human body.
Best advice is to follow manufactures advice, use carefully, don't stretch the produc to do something it wasn't designed to do and most importantly provide extraction or general ventilation in the work are and always ask for professional help if in doubt. If used correctly and with the necessary precautions in place there is no reason anyone should become ill when using modern chemicals.
Firstly many years ago most degreasing solvents contained chlorinated hydrocarbons such as trichloroethylene, this has been banned under the Montreal protocol as it depletes the ozone layer and is a suspected carcinogen. There are some industries that cannot use other degreasers such as aerospace and MOD, as there is years of information that suggests thus stuff doesn't damage or affect metal. These have special dispensation and are required to use closed loop systems with vapour recovery technology and have to prove on a regular basis that they retain the same amount of solvent as they purchased. Dow is the only company that manufactures this solvent and the closed loop systems cost upwards of £100K.
Any chlorinated solvent is bad news and amongst other things can give off phosgene and other nasties that are even more dangerous.
Most degreasing solvents and in particular brake cleaner are generic low boiling point distillates that are generally clean and don't give off any nasty break down products. This has been ver very well researched in the F1 industry where brake cleaner is generally slopped around like water.
These do have a defatting action on the epidermis layer of the skin thus making it more susceptible to exposure from other sources. For example, mechanics using brake cleaner are at increased risk when exposed to used engine oil on THIER skins. Used engine oil contains poly aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) which are potent carcinogens.
In direct response to post 35 above, I suspect that the solvent was Genklene and yes it will have produced a cocktail of substances but unlikely it was phosgene as this has a very acute impact on the human body.
Even with the modern solvents that are so called safe there are still almost always some degree if impact on the human body.
Best advice is to follow manufactures advice, use carefully, don't stretch the produc to do something it wasn't designed to do and most importantly provide extraction or general ventilation in the work are and always ask for professional help if in doubt. If used correctly and with the necessary precautions in place there is no reason anyone should become ill when using modern chemicals.
Parm
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Oh dear, I started writing this this morning but had a little break to go take some pictures in Clovelly (in devon to be with kids for Xmas). Stopped off for a few sherbets and had a few more when I got back to barnstaple, OMG, post littered with mistakes!!!!
SmartWerks
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After I liked your post, thought you were sharing some reliable knowledge. No more sherbert for you
norlander
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After I liked your post, thought you were sharing some reliable knowledge. No more sherbert for you
thats another little known health risk-sherbert mixed with christmas spirit- it can cause all sorts of problems. Early sympomps are tryping erreturs.
