Decent pulsed DC Tig welding on the cheap?

[jo1010]

This maybe an impossible aim but I've started to look at possibilities - I've got a classic range rover resto (hobby) coming up and all the floors etc will be migged but there are some more visible areas such as front inner wings that may be better tigged.....I've never tigged but want to learn .....but the choices are boiling my brain. .....yes I know I'm not going to pick up a Tig welder and produce pro quality straight off the bat, but I want a machine that I can grow into and produce some finesse as I get more skilled, so I'm thinking about (secondhand) machines that allow some finessing - possibly a DC machine that has pulse and tailoring of up slope/down slope......but am I running before I can walk....given my current Tig skill level? (I've migged for quite a few years, done years of stick on heavier agricultural stuff, and a lesser amount of oxy/ acetylene years ago). On the other hand I don't want to have a too-basic machine that I need to change to progress further
The constraint is budget and I'm around £400 or less for the secondhand machine....
Option 1. cheaper than £400 might be an older wsm type machine (and if it had ac too could be more flexible in the future). But maintainability is a issue so I'm thinking
....
Option 2. A machine from identifiable mainstream manufacturers..... maybe at the expense of some of the bells and whistles (eg Thermal Arc 175 type products, r tech 180pdc, gys 168dc/200hf dc, Xcaliber 2000dc.....) .....or

Option 3. Just get a basic static arc DC or similar to get the Tig skill basics going, and then sell on if I want to progress more.
I'm all ears...flame me...

 

[voipio]

Decent and Cheap tend to be mutually exclusive.

 

[chip]

It's tough recommending anything for that money, If that budget's firm I'd be inclined to wait it out and buy used quality .just me.

 

[jo1010]

And how much concern is there about hf start on a vehicle ecu - obviously close and clean earth to the work with battery alternator disconnected ....but is there still a risk.... (Thinking I need lift Tig to be completely safe?)

 

[Erie Fred]

Drink lot's of coffee and tap dance on the TIG pedal......

 

[Rrobson]

Don’t tig bodywork, the distortion you’ll see, even with pulse, will be horrific…
It shrinks probably 2 or 3 times the amount mig does. Plus, no matter how good your technique is, gaps more than 2mm will be very difficult to fill and likely distort even more. If you do plan on going down this road, you will need some extra metalworking equipment to relax the panels.

Can you weld those areas from the inside? The back edge of mig’d joint will be much easier to clean / grind / polish than the front edge.

 

[JOEPRO]

It's interesting that Gas Monkey and the likes on TV use TIG exclusively for their car builds. I often thought this was a highly skilled process.

Until I seen a couple of close ups of their completed welds and vomited slightly in my mouth!

 

[jo1010]

Don’t tig bodywork, the distortion you’ll see, even with pulse, will be horrific…

I agree with the heat problem, and I've seen it remedied with quenching and using low tig amps....I think he uses 24amp tacks on this Porsche fender.....

He makes the point that hammering the weld bead with a dolly behind it is viable for Tig, but not mig which is a harder weld - and consequently needs much more grinder dressing.....
He has another vid where he directly compares mig and Tig on a wheel arch section and shows the reverse side of the weld - mig in this case has penetrated through and the backside ideally would need dressing to finish it properly....whereas the Tig hasn't gone that far...

It's certainly right that the right gaps are important though -if they're 2mm big then mig would be the best option.
Let me know what you think

 

[jo1010]

... and vomited slightly in my mouth!

haha, yes, have a look too at the links I posted above.......perhaps we should start a thread of the bad technique/welding examples that proliferate on social media (and maybe the good examples too)....

 

[Agroshield]

Can you exceed the machine budget by 12.5% and go for option 2 1/2?

GYS PROTIG 161 DC HF TIG WELDER 240 VOLT | eBay

3 trigger modes :2T, 4T and 4T LOG. Save 10 programs for each process, for a perfect reproducibility of your welds. Reinforced body and shockproof rubber pads on the corners. Light (7.5 kg), compact and easy to move on-site.

www.ebay.co.uk

It is not compatible with a footpedal, only a switch. It comes with a 17-series torch, so you'd have to add something for a 9-series torch, cable, dinse adaptor and consumables.

 

[jo1010]

Can you exceed the machine budget by 12.5% and go for option 2 1/2?

It is not compatible with a footpedal, only a switch. It comes with a 17-series torch, so you'd have to add something for a 9-series torch, cable, dinse adaptor and consumables.

Wow, feature packed! I really like the sound of that . And the thought about a 9series torch for usability too (I hadn't even thought of that until now). Are there UK service agents for Gys do you know (for faults arising under guarantee, unless I can get.good secondhand). Definitely a contender at that price. Thank you.

 

[JOEPRO]

haha, yes, have a look too at the links I posted above.......perhaps we should start a thread of the bad technique/welding examples that proliferate on social media (and maybe the good examples too)....

Way ahead of you

Thread 'Welding hall of shame' https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/welding-hall-of-shame.133155/

 

[Agroshield]

Are there UK service agents for GYS?

The eBay seller is a bona fide bricks and mortar welding shop. Give them a call and ask. I think it could be a model that has been superceeded by a newer one in the GYS line up (look on GYS own website to see current product line). Also ask them why it is listed cheaper on eBay than on their own website and ask if you buy direct off them for that price, whether they will split 50/50 what they save on eBay fees with you by throwing in something (examples of needed but cheap things include: 16A plug as the machine comes with a Euro plug, dinze to BSP adaptor, pack of tungstens, 9-series torch head, 9-series collets and cups, torch switch). That would only leave you to source the cable.

 

[jo1010]

Way ahead of you

Aha, thanks I'll have a good look at that, very educational

 

[jo1010]

... ask if you buy direct off them for that price, whether they will split 50/50 what they save on eBay fees with you

Great idea! Thanks!

 

[Seabass 9102]

This maybe an impossible aim but I've started to look at possibilities - I've got a classic range rover resto (hobby) coming up and all the floors etc will be migged but there are some more visible areas such as front inner wings that may be better tigged.....I've never tigged but want to learn .....but the choices are boiling my brain. .....yes I know I'm not going to pick up a Tig welder and produce pro quality straight off the bat, but I want a machine that I can grow into and produce some finesse as I get more skilled, so I'm thinking about (secondhand) machines that allow some finessing - possibly a DC machine that has pulse and tailoring of up slope/down slope......but am I running before I can walk....given my current Tig skill level? (I've migged for quite a few years, done years of stick on heavier agricultural stuff, and a lesser amount of oxy/ acetylene years ago). On the other hand I don't want to have a too-basic machine that I need to change to progress further
The constraint is budget and I'm around £400 or less for the secondhand machine....
Option 1. cheaper than £400 might be an older wsm type machine (and if it had ac too could be more flexible in the future). But maintainability is a issue so I'm thinking
....
Option 2. A machine from identifiable mainstream manufacturers..... maybe at the expense of some of the bells and whistles (eg Thermal Arc 175 type products, r tech 180pdc, gys 168dc/200hf dc, Xcaliber 2000dc.....) .....or

Option 3. Just get a basic static arc DC or similar to get the Tig skill basics going, and then sell on if I want to progress more.
I'm all ears...flame me...

I bought a cheap chinese welder 2 years ago and love it. Tig 200A , HF, Cold Weld, Pulse Spot, Pulse Tig, 110-220V. I used this for welding panel on cars. The worst part is learning how to Tig. I use it often and never had a problem with it, and it still run like new. I have never used it on 220V, but 110V works great on the thinner materials like the panels on vehicles. I got the same advice you did. Spend the extra money and get what you pay for. The chinese make good welders. I paid $200 Canadian for mine and you can still get it today for the same price. Check Amazon. Hzxvogen HBT2000Pro.
Good luck

 

[jo1010]

The chinese make good welders. I paid $200 Canadian for mine and you can still get it today for the same price. Check Amazon.

Possibly true, but I'd be more concerned about the lack of in-country warranty support after the initial 30 days. Even 'good' welders can go wrong....

 

[carbon]

The constraint is budget and I'm around £400 or less

Does this included the bottle of pure argon that you need to use with tig?

 

[jo1010]

Does this included the bottle of pure argon that you need to use with tig?

Noooo...I was being more realistic than that....these days gas would almost swallow the entire £400 budget .....I'm going for the gys 161 Agro posted above - I think it's a closing line but they're going fast at that price