Damn roof leaking.

[julianf]

In my opinion as a none roofer who as done a bit, Id strip that off and redo it properly

Which is an acceptable solution to me. But whatever happens, I'm not doing it now, as the weather is too poor.

Edit -

I'm not going to be changing the structure though, no matter what tales of woe Gaz comes up with...

 

[JimmyS]

Do you know roughly what the pitch of the roof is and the size of the slates you can check the head lap is OK.
Also as mentioned normally the lower slate sits about half way into the gutter and is laid double ie one over the top of the other. Normally there's something under the lower course of slates such as a bit of felt or DPM which sits over the gutter. Also good practice to grade slates with thick ones at eaves and thinner at ridge although some roofers don't seem to bother.

 

[gaz1]

roof slope is fine

I just want the water to stay outside the house.

But I should be clear, I'm wanting solutions, not some extended, well, somthing...

Which is an acceptable solution to me. But whatever happens, I'm not doing it now, as the weather is too poor.

Edit -

I'm not going to be changing the structure though, no matter what tales of woe Gaz comes up with...

i told you your not going to like what i said so

thats the whole point of it julian in all of those thread posts youve done its always been im not going to do or i dont want to pay for that and you as the customer is the problem

Slate roofing questions

We have a rubbish lean to extension here - The roof is stuffed. The rafters are poor, and the wall plate (term?) that they attach to is almost entirely rotted away. The rafters are supported by repair timbers up from the joists. I thought about re-slating it, but its so knackered...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

youve made the mess of the roof area for your want and i certainly wouldnt have lifted that roof unless i lifted the lot of it and keep it all inline



lifting that roof from the front and fitting the guttering onto the old roof is the worst way to do it and also the join running up the side of the solar vacuum install and you can see it
the fact that you ignored advice on what to do via this post

Quick question on slate rooves and fascia boards

I feel like I'm missing somthing here - Slate roof - Membrane on top of rafters, then battons, then slate nailed to battens. I'm aware there are different ways of laying out the batttons, but that's the way it is on this roof. Then the slate comes down, and there is facia board screwed to...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

your comment
This roof is in place. So any talk of how to hammer the plastic sheets onto timbers under the slates is 100% useless to me. Videos of how it should be done? At this point in time, useless. Etc.etc.

I'm looking for solution to the issue, not stripping the roof. I may not have a perfect solution as they should have been installed on build, but I reckon it probably won't be so bad with the advice here.

the run back is now causing the issue as i cant see anything via your tiles photo unless theres something else
just as not running that downpipe down on its own run would have been the best coarse of action not run it onto a roof

youve had time to do and you havent though i have taken note that you have been doing inside of it

Which is an acceptable solution to me. But whatever happens, I'm not doing it now, as the weather is too poor.

Edit -

I'm not going to be changing the structure though, no matter what tales of woe Gaz comes up with...

yet 3 times youve mentioned your roof and having issues and yet its been bodged and bodged again

either do it right with the advice that you have been suplied and it should last well over 70 years as your bodges certainly havent lasted have they

 

[Newlands]

I always put a strip of 300mm wide plastic damp course along the eaves first, then the breathable membrane on top. As someone else said, the bottom batten should be a bit thicker to tilt the first course up a touch.
I think you’ve probably already identified one problem with the batten fixed direct on top of the felt causing any water to dam up rather than drip into the gutter.
As a temporary measure, you might be able to slide some plastic dpc up under the slates at the eaves, plus extend that down pipe right down the roof with an elbow into the gutter. A blob of Sikaflex as someone above suggested to sort out the ones with exposed nailholes . Then next spring when we have another heatwave, strip it all off and start again.
I’m assuming you’ve got soakers all the way up where it joins the house?? You really need to get the angle grinder out and run a slot up about 100 mm above the slates, then some 150mm lead flashing dressed down over the top of the slates.
There are loads of guides around on line with pictures much better than my explanations.

 

[julianf]

roof slope is fine




i told you your not going to like what i said so

thats the whole point of it julian in all of those thread posts youve done its always been im not going to do or i dont want to pay for that and you as the customer is the problem

Slate roofing questions

We have a rubbish lean to extension here - The roof is stuffed. The rafters are poor, and the wall plate (term?) that they attach to is almost entirely rotted away. The rafters are supported by repair timbers up from the joists. I thought about re-slating it, but its so knackered...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

youve made the mess of the roof area for your want and i certainly wouldnt have lifted that roof unless i lifted the lot of it and keep it all inline

View attachment 369959View attachment 369960

lifting that roof from the front and fitting the guttering onto the old roof is the worst way to do it and also the join running up the side of the solar vacuum install and you can see it
the fact that you ignored advice on what to do via this post

Quick question on slate rooves and fascia boards

I feel like I'm missing somthing here - Slate roof - Membrane on top of rafters, then battons, then slate nailed to battens. I'm aware there are different ways of laying out the batttons, but that's the way it is on this roof. Then the slate comes down, and there is facia board screwed to...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

your comment
This roof is in place. So any talk of how to hammer the plastic sheets onto timbers under the slates is 100% useless to me. Videos of how it should be done? At this point in time, useless. Etc.etc.

I'm looking for solution to the issue, not stripping the roof. I may not have a perfect solution as they should have been installed on build, but I reckon it probably won't be so bad with the advice here.

the run back is now causing the issue as i cant see anything via your tiles photo unless theres something else
just as not running that downpipe down on its own run would have been the best coarse of action not run it onto a roof

youve had time to do and you havent though i have taken note that you have been doing inside of it


yet 3 times youve mentioned your roof and having issues and yet its been bodged and bodged again

either do it right with the advice that you have been suplied and it should last well over 70 years as your bodges certainly havent lasted have they

Right, so, the folllowing photo will prove, i hope, that the roof was entirely renewed, as per the advice given in the first thread that you are fishing through -

I did not do the work. As i said, i paid someone else to do it.

The only bit remaining of the old roof is the flashing, that the chap (rightly or wrongly) did not want to remove from the adjoining building.

The roof was not raised for anything to do with the door. As you can see in the photo, there is glass above the new door. There is no need for the roof to be higher there for the door to work. It was done, as i said, for somthing to do with the slate courses. I did not ask for it, and, completely the oposite, i said that id rather it was flat, but was told that was the way it should be done.


So, in light of all of the above, would you like to scrap your little "telling off" and maybe give some actual advice on how to solve the issue?

 

[julianf]

as your bodges certainly havent lasted have they

i just noticed this.

do you not believe me or somthing? again, the roof was taken down and renewed, not by me. i mean, how clear can i get?

Here is another photo for you to doubt -

If id stuffed it up myself, id just say as much. Or id have a better idea of what was going on. It was too big a job for me, that i didnt really understand, so i paid someone else.


Do you -

a) believe me, or
b) think for some reason im lying and have just photoshopped the photos??/



I mean, really?

 

[julianf]

the run back is now causing the issue as i cant see anything via your tiles photo unless theres something else
just as not running that downpipe down on its own run would have been the best coarse of action not run it onto a roof

youve had time to do and you havent though i have taken note that you have been doing inside of it


yet 3 times youve mentioned your roof and having issues and yet its been bodged and bodged again

I dont generlally get riled by this kind of stuff, but you mention three posts -

First post, you said take it all down - thats what happened.
Second post, you said stick some plastic thing under it, thats what happened - i mean you can even see it in the photo i posted before -

Third post, you are again not even reading what ive said and just ranting.

I mean, really Gaz, for better or worse, ive done *exactly* what youve said all along, its not working (i clearly dont blame you for that) but you can understand that im irritated by it anyway, and you being an ass about it isnt helping.

 

[julianf]

I think I'd like to go back to my initial question of how to remove the bottom few courses, and, more importantly, what do I need to reattach them, given that I won't be able to nail them down?

I'm guessing just go to Toolstation etc and get a slate ripper and that will do them? Assuming, I guess, there were no screws used.

So, yes, one question - what's the thing to re-mount them once the situation is joyously rectified?

Thank you.

 

[addjunkie]

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There are other methods too. A bit of lead works, or welding rod suitably bent. But youll hpget better results restating it all.
Please dont take offence…..
That wood work on the roofing timbers from below is awful, too much has been cut from the joist where it sits ontop on the horizontal joist. Also looks like hes has a couple of goes trying to cut it too. I assume the horizontal is supported by the additional timber below in the door structure. As thats the weakest way to lay a timber joist, very likley to sag in the middle.

What was the logic for the two levels? And the solid block wall?

 

[reb78]

Julian - looking at your first pics, your plasterboard is screwed up and hasnt been skimmed yet? I would be tempted to unscrew or cut out a sheet here and take a look at the underside of the roof to see if you can see exactly where the water is coming in. The lead and render on the right side of the photos under what looks like an air exit vent looks a mess - is it leaking there? The hole in that tile wont be helping so would seal that up - sikaflex would do as a trial as someone else has said. I am no builder but thats where I would start by having a look above the plasterboard, especially when its next raining.

 

[julianf]

What was the logic for the two levels? And the solid block wall?

I don't know what the dual level thing was exactly. I never fully understood it. Somthing about making the courses parallel across the roof.

 

[julianf]

Julian - looking at your first pics, your plasterboard is screwed up and hasnt been skimmed yet? I would be tempted to unscrew or cut out a sheet here and take a look at the underside of the roof to see if you can see exactly where the water is coming in. The lead and render on the right side of the photos under what looks like an air exit vent looks a mess - is it leaking there? The hole in that tile wont be helping so would seal that up - sikaflex would do as a trial as someone else has said. I am no builder but thats where I would start by having a look above the plasterboard, especially when its next raining.

The plasterboard is easy to remove. But behind that is a whole load of cellotex that kept falling out until I got busy with the expanding foam...

So that would not be so easy.

 

[reb78]

The plasterboard is easy to remove. But behind that is a whole load of cellotex that kept falling out until I got busy with the expanding foam...

So that would not be so easy.

Ah, Still, you may be able to tell where the water is tracking in perhaps.

 

[Morrisman]

Looks like that drainpipe is pouring out and running exactly over that hole. That would be my first angle of attack, fill the hole, reroute that down-pipe somehow, test for leaks.

 

[julianf]

I've been thinking more about the split level thing -

The pitch of the roof is identical (on both ends) to the original roof. I know this with 100% certainty, as the original flashing on the two party walls remains unchanged, so the pitch was fixed.

I think that the split level thing may have been so as it became two horizontal rooves, rather than one on a tilt (left to right).

I'm finding it hard to get my head around the geometry of it, but that would seem to make sense. The original roof was possibly all on a wonk - which may not have really bothered me, but im thinking that the split level is probably the only way to make each roof horizontal with the original pitch at each end maintained.


However -

a) this is not where the issue is, and
b) it seems (to me) to be a useless red-herring to continue focussing on this area, UNLESS its actually relevant?

Thank you.

 

[addjunkie]

The two levels to me just presents another potential future leak path down that joint, but I agree its not the current issue.

 

[julianf]

Take the third course of slates off from the bottom up with a slate rip and then work down with full access to the nails and strip the full 3 courses...check how far the plastic soffit tray goes up under the membrane,you need at least 300mm. looking at the pics it looks like the eave course is missing or short, (eave course being the half height slates you fit 1st), also the 1st course and eave has been fitted short from the gutter line (must fall to the middle of gutter) so you will have to buy taller slates for your 1st course now as fitting the same size and dropping them you will compromise head lap. Also under the window sill at the top, if the sandstone sill has no "drip check" (small groove cut underneath to stop water running back) then there will be water getting in there as there does not appear to have a flashing (very bad detail). Renew the rain water pipe also by offsetting it over to the wall with pipe and running down roof slope into gutter at bottom, that roof is taking a hell of a lot of water from main slope and currently with not even a proper shoe on it to discharge away from window sill. Closing comment on the whole roof is it is a mess and not been done even close to half decent with no regards given to regular horizontal or vertical laps. Hope this slightly helps.

Thank you.

Do you have any suggestion over what has been mentioned to reattach the slates after?

I'm thinking I'll be able to do the first few courses in the normal way and then require a row of clips on the highest row that need to re-instated.

Assuming it is run back from the lowest course and not flow comming from above, is there any special instruction for the lowest batton which, I recall, was fixed direct to the beam, and will therefore act as a dam for any leakage above. Should I remove that timber, and, in which case what would the states be fixed to?

The job is not counter battoned the rafters are, I think ending on top of the beam rather than overhanging, hence the batton / dam issue.


I need to buy whatever clips I need before starting, and a ripper.


The plastic thing is not under the slate any distance at all, as it was fitted by me, post completion, and I could not get it under the slate like it should have been, as they were already all nailed down. I can replace it when they are removed.

Thank you.

 

[gaz1]

if you rip out the 5th slate up out
the 4th row rip the 2 nails out in the middle
3rd row do the same
2nd row do the same
1st row take out the lot

if you do it in triangles you will only need to do so many straps along the run of the 5th row

but this allows full rip out of the full front row and also allows full access to the latte and also the underfelt which you maybe better lifting the latts on the last 2 rows edge and also one latte back this allows new felt to go back down and also able to fit that plastic drip edge as well with a new sheet of felt over it and then relatte it

then work back wards doing it in 3s make it look a little bit of strap heaven but doing it in 5s dosnt

the 2 nails under that slate rip them out and spin the slate's sideways

next row is 3 slates 1 out 2 spun next row is 2 spun and 3 out the front row allows full access of removal

to allow this to happen

you can go 3 rows higher but 5 rows for better access just incase you have to rip out that front latte

all it means is one strap ever triangle the rest of them are just nailed back down properly

 

[gaz1]

in slate reference in 5s ( 5th rows up and then work backwards )

1 slate out 1st row
2nd row 2 nails out under removed slate spin the slates sideways
3rd row 1 out 2 spun
4th row 3 slates out 2 spun
front row 7 slates all out

next triangle same again but calculate for the next triangle so front row becomes 14 slates out at the front

 

[gaz1]

I don't know what the dual level thing was exactly. I never fully understood it. Somthing about making the courses parallel across the roof.

I've been thinking more about the split level thing -

The pitch of the roof is identical (on both ends) to the original roof. I know this with 100% certainty, as the original flashing on the two party walls remains unchanged, so the pitch was fixed.

I think that the split level thing may have been so as it became two horizontal rooves, rather than one on a tilt (left to right).

I'm finding it hard to get my head around the geometry of it, but that would seem to make sense. The original roof was possibly all on a wonk - which may not have really bothered me, but im thinking that the split level is probably the only way to make each roof horizontal with the original pitch at each end maintained.


However -

a) this is not where the issue is, and
b) it seems (to me) to be a useless red-herring to continue focussing on this area, UNLESS its actually relevant?

Thank you.

to be honest here its both the builders fault and the roofers fault

it should have been just one roof all the way across ignoring the leading reference that can and does change with house setterling

what should have been done is level lined from original roof and so the new roof matched it in your case they havent the main part is the roof above the door they screwed up badly on it therefore giving you 2 levels of roof with guttering sat on the roof

it looks a mess and an abortion that way compared to a single flat roof run into a gutter at the edge
that joint is also a bad place for water getting in and also the gutter point is also a bad place as theres no seal properly at back of it and over the years it will suffer and leak they always do

theres only way to do it and that means roof off and redo it again so it can be properly leveled off as a single roof
the drop maybe where your door beam becomes the roof rafter point instead of that 8or6x2

this wood makes that whole roof wrong and the drop i suspect would mean that wood needs to be out




or for some reason they packed it to make a dual roof why i couldnt tell you as there was no need for it