cup walking

[Richard.]

You will probably find especially with Tig that if the run does not look great and is inconsistant then it's probably not that sound.
I'm not and never will be a cup walker but I am a believer that if a Tig weld looks visually appealing it's on the right road to been a strong sound weld over a weld that looks a little on the rough and inconsistant side.

 

[SBK]

Walking the cup has its place Imo some employers now will only take you if you can,so with that in mind its better to have as many tools in your box a you can fit.
I do agree that in the real world cup walking is for show mainly although i have come across a good few very good welders and thats all they use for pipe,but can still freehand to a very high standard.
In my line of work they say that its whats on the inside that counts,but if you were to produce a minger with enough penetration (which is possible) I doubt if you would get the job.

 

[wheresmejumper]

Air cooled torches,160 amps on heavy wall pipe,you can't hold a hot torch that long.walking on 4t let's you hold the very base of the handle,where it's coolest

 

[norlander]

Air cooled torches,160 amps on heavy wall pipe,you can't hold a hot torch that long.walking on 4t let's you hold the very base of the handle,where it's coolest

I would imagine that following the radius of the pipe and keeping the arc gap constant would be tricky freehand?-possibly another reason for walking the cup??

 

[norlander]

You will probably find especially with Tig that if the run does not look great and is inconsistant then it's probably not that sound.
I'm not and never will be a cup walker but I am a believer that if a Tig weld looks visually appealing it's on the right road to been a strong sound weld over a weld that looks a little on the rough and inconsistant side.

Yes, I will always strive to make a neat and constant bead, but I won't place visual appeal over a sound weld, the end result may not look immaculate every time, but when you have watched the fusion, I tend to accept a lumpy bead and won't grind it out to put a prettier one in its place.

 

[Richard.]

Yes, I will always strive to make a neat and constant bead, but I won't place visual appeal over a sound weld, the end result may not look immaculate every time, but when you have watched the fusion, I tend to accept a lumpy bead and won't grind it out to put a prettier one in its place.

The two go hand in hand I'm afraid with Tig welding. If you have a lumpy bead this is caused by inconsistent fill which will effect it's integrity. If your bead wonders off course it may not of fused properly in that area.
I do understand what your saying quite often an attractive weld can be useless but in Tig welding it's not that often an ugly weld can be sound.

 

[wheresmejumper]

I would imagine that following the radius of the pipe and keeping the arc gap constant would and?-possibly another reason for walking the cup??

I walk it hardly ever,never done it enough to be good at it anyway.following the radius of a pipe i find a lot easier freehanding tig than arc welding . propping a finger with tig helps

 

[norlander]

it may not of fused properly in that area.

the end result may not look immaculate every time, but when you have watched the fusion, I tend to accept a lumpy bead and won't grind it out to put a prettier one in its place.

I'm not talking about wandering off course or line, I'm on about backing up onto the bead already laid down in order to get fusion before moving on. I don't have to do this now as I have a bells n whistles TIG, before that, I only had lift TIG and no current control.

 

[Richard.]

Tig is a high heat input slow process which are it's down falls when talking distortion and mechanical properties.
Cup walking only makes the process hotter and slower.
If on the rare occasion I need to fill something where a conventional Tig run won't fill it and for some reason I cannot use a more practical process I'll multi run rather than walk or weave with Tig and I certainly would never entertain a walk or weave on a simple joint a straight run will cover nicely. Yes there is skill involved in it but there is skill involved in juggling (I'll never need to do that either)

 

[norlander]

I certainly would never entertain a walk or weave on a simple joint a straight run will cover nicely

a bit off topic, but I think I recall you commenting on weaving for MIG, I was getting into the habit of doing that, then, after reading your comment, I disciplined myself to do straight runs and they came out very neat and tidy and I watched the penetration at the root, I weaved a subsequent pass and there was little or no difference in the finish, but I had more confidence in the fusion of the straight run.
Off topic as that was MIG.

Would it be true to say that if you have your settings right for TIG (or any process come to that); you should have no need to weave or walk?.
I note that with TIG, if I'm lazy and don't have enough amps, I faff around walking the arc about between the two parts to be joined to get the pool established, often dabbing in the filler tween the two parts to get going and putting way too much heat into the start..Not so much now though as I have a somewhat clumsy control on the torch, so can drop the amps down once the pool is there.

 

[Richard.]

Vertical up mig and mma is where i would use a bit of torch manipulation simply to maintain the liquid metal from running back. It's not so much a weave more of a triangle/Christmas tree shape manoeuvre. With your new Tig now you have 200 amps to play with so I'd imagine generating a pool on most stuff is never a problem any more.
I used to weave with mig believing it was a stronger fat weld until I was told not too. It's a matter of balance with the heat input to get the most out of the weld.
Too slow= high heat = low toughness
Too fast= low heat=high hardness= brittle and reduced penetration.

 

[norlander]

With your new Tig now you have 200 amps to play with so I'd imagine generating a pool on most stuff is never a problem any more.

Yes, not only is the arc better than my lift TIG kit, but the HF start and upslope help, the 4TLog helps a lot now I have got used to using it, but still need to work on it.

Vertical up mig and mma is where i would use a bit of torch manipulation simply to maintain the liquid metal from running back.

I've found a setting on the GYS MIG where I can weld butts and fillets and go Vup or down without weaving and without changing anything on the machine for my 1.2-2.5 mm stuff.

But I guess, going back to the walking the cup method, its used for pipework? I'm assuming its used to weld on a branch to a take off or a flange on pipe ends??
I 've done very little pipework, and then it was MMA anyway.

 

[wheresmejumper]

Walking the cup is regional and company specific with pipe.some won't hire you if you can't do it,and do it fast.some don't want you to do it

 

[antonio costa]

I learn't to do root passes walking the cup, actually I used to walk the cup on everything that had a V groove, from plate to pipe. Thin one pass only stuff I always freehanded. But after a wrist injury (involved surgery ) I couldn't walk the cup properly, only dragging in the groove and even that was painfull so I started to freehand everything. Nowadays my wrist is fine and I can walk it if I want to but unless it's asked I freehand.
It's important to be able do it both ways if you want to weld at pro level and to be able to use a scratch start rig to meet x ray quality. Lot's of high end jobs (in the field not in the shop) are still done that way for several reasons.

 

[Screwdriver]

If I could weld like that I'd post a whole series of pictures all over the internet and casually ask what people think of this "bit of scrap I just threw together".

You tart!

S.

 

[SBK]

What ? like this bit of scrap Lol.

 

[weld1]

The only time i used walk the cup method was a overhead fillet weld as i couldn't rest my torch hand anywhere..

 

[Mr shiney]

Can someone explain what this walking the cup is?

 

[Tigman]

easiest scenario is a fillet weld , you rest the cerramic right in the fillet touching both sides , then walk the ceramic , like rolling a full barrel from side to side to move it forward

 

[Tigman]

Mr Shiney have a look at Weldingtipsandtricks.com , he does videos that show all the techniques has a very good example of walking the cup !