Cowboy builders

[tigler]

Probably many of you will have seen an episode or 2 of this. OK, the presenters are enough to give you the rage but the main point is obviously the poor sods who've been chronically ripped off by absolute crooks.
An idea occurred to me last night whilst watching some of the latest episode, if a mandatory registration system was implemented so that builders would have to register with details of qualifications, supply references, etc, so that without registration they would not be legally able to undertake any building work, then the majority of these horror stories would be eliminated.
All anyone would need to do when choosing a builder to do any work is check their registration details with the local council. No registration, no work.
It could even be an annual licence to do paid building work, so the council could make some extra revenue and fully protect consumers from cowboy builders. It would also ensure a good standard of work on the countries housing stock, for current and future owners.
So I throw it open to comment from the forum, is it a good idea or not ?

 

[Premiershipman]

Yes and no, over on the island we have a government registration scheme but it seems little more than an exercise for the govt to collect a fee from the company and not actually bother to check up on their qualifications etc.

I know of many 'government registered' tradesmen who have been thrown off jobs for poor workmanship and the like.

I do agree that there needs to be some standardisation, I believe that you have to train as a builder in germany similar to a plumber/electrician etc before you are deemed competent to work on your own.

In the UK you can just put 'Builder' on a white van and away you go.

I do think having watched the program many times that some of the people have been very silly in not getting recommendations from friends or family, or bothered to check with trading standards when looking to hand over £20-£50K+ to a complete stranger.

But it also seems too easy to run a crap company, amass tons of debt and disgruntled customers and then just close the company and start a new one wither as an owner or director.

The building trade does need some serious sorting out.

Shady

 

[tigler]

Yes, we have a supposed registration scheme for Plumbers & Electricians but it doesn't seem to prevent some outrageously shoddy and dangerous work !
The scheme would need really sharp teeth to deal with rogues.

 

[TechnicAl]

More often than not its down to people going for the lowest quote. Its the same whatever you buy, you need to remember two sayings.........you get what you pay for...........if it looks too good to be true it probably is.

 

[Shox Dr]

Arrrrrrrrrrh more red tape.

There's enough of that already

And why pick out builders, there are plenty of rouges in any walk of life, "buyer beware is the age old addage" (sp)

Word of mouth is the best way.

 

[tigler]

No one wants more red tape but without it these crooks are just taking advantage. Maybe we on this forum wouldn't get taken but Mr & Mrs average are at their mercy. Agreed, rogues everywhere but with building work the consequences of getting ripped off are dire. There needs to be some sort of standard in place to protect the consumer.

 

[brightspark]

Arrrrrrrrrrh more red tape.

There's enough of that already

And why pick out builders, there are plenty of rouges in any walk of life, "buyer beware is the age old addage" (sp)

Word of mouth is the best way.

2 rite it is .ive never spent a penny on advertising . no name on me van no telephone number in the phone book only travel up to 6 miles on jobs and please myself who i will work for

 

[wheresmejumper]

car industry has its cowboys too,with potentially disastrous consequences.
it isnt uncommon to 'replace' parts by giving them a quick spray of wd40 and wipe with a rag.

 

[the snooper]

the easy fix is to get a reputable company that doesnt want cash up front, these companys speak for themselves by having the necassary reserves and confidence in thier work to know they will do the job right and have no problems getting paid at the end of the build.

obviously there are genuine builders that will want and need cash up front but the problem is finding the genuine ones

 

[mike os]

having worked in the industry for getting on 30 years I know registration is not the answer, a register of qualifications is not the answer, they are just more jobs for the boys & cost for the companies/customers. CSCS was supposed to deal with this..... got one? you are "qualified", must be OK to do the job etc... what an epic fail... NHBC... i refuse to work to their standards, FMB... FENSA..... more jobs for the boys & just another tax, loads of "approved schemes" that cost too much for honest traders & offer sod all protection to consumers or traders

For me the answer is fairly simple.... VAT... reduce the rate of vat on all building work to 10% or lower (a fair slice of it is reduced or zero rated anyway)... but the only way you as a customer can get this saving is if the firm is VAT registered ( easy to verify), require all firms involved in construction to be VAT registered inc sole traders. ( similar to CIS) Materials still sell at full VAT rate so it costs the "builder" more to be non VAT, gives the industry a boost "because the VAT is cheaper", but is probably pretty much revenue neutral to HMRC because the additional 10% VAT on labour will balance up the material returns.

Also means that all work has to be receipted & invoiced correctly... & as we all know you do not f£&K with the VAT man... no need for a new body, plenty of teeth there already & as most of the crap in this area amounts to fraud ( billing for goods & services NOT received) and because of the VAT it is also VAT fraud, you report it to HMRC as a VAT question....& someone could be in a world of pain, and they cannot default, dissolve the firm or go bankrupt until the VAT matter is resolved

 

[Shox Dr]

There needs to be some sort of standard in place to protect the consumer.

There is it's called Building control, and Planning consent.

 

[brightspark]

There is it's called Building control, and Planning consent.

and even they cant allways be relied up on for a satisfactory job what the eye doesnt see the heart cant greave over

 

[tigler]

Evidently not working in many cases though. Also, that depends on the council being notified of work in progress.

 

[tigler]

having worked in the industry for getting on 30 years I know registration is not the answer, a register of qualifications is not the answer, they are just more jobs for the boys & cost for the companies/customers. CSCS was supposed to deal with this..... got one? you are "qualified", must be OK to do the job etc... what an epic fail... NHBC... i refuse to work to their standards, FMB... FENSA..... more jobs for the boys & just another tax, loads of "approved schemes" that cost too much for honest traders & offer sod all protection to consumers or traders

For me the answer is fairly simple.... VAT... reduce the rate of vat on all building work to 10% or lower (a fair slice of it is reduced or zero rated anyway)... but the only way you as a customer can get this saving is if the firm is VAT registered ( easy to verify), require all firms involved in construction to be VAT registered inc sole traders. ( similar to CIS) Materials still sell at full VAT rate so it costs the "builder" more to be non VAT, gives the industry a boost "because the VAT is cheaper", but is probably pretty much revenue neutral to HMRC because the additional 10% VAT on labour will balance up the material returns.

Also means that all work has to be receipted & invoiced correctly... & as we all know you do not f£&K with the VAT man... no need for a new body, plenty of teeth there already & as most of the crap in this area amounts to fraud ( billing for goods & services NOT received) and because of the VAT it is also VAT fraud, you report it to HMRC as a VAT question....& someone could be in a world of pain, and they cannot default, dissolve the firm or go bankrupt until the VAT matter is resolved

No disrespect but the average conman rides a coach and horses through HMRC regs. By the time they react he's had his hand in your pocket, run away, spent it and disappeared. All under a false name so he can't be traced.

 

[Shox Dr]

Evidently not working in many cases though. Also, that depends on the council being notified of work in progress.

Very true, and made even worst now it can be sub'd out to the private sector. There's a house down the road from me, that was stopped by Building Control as they didn't have any Planning, the guy told the Building Inspector he didn't need any as he was using a private firm for building control

 

[mike os]

the majority of issues over building work are long term, not overnight....and a lot of the firms involved in shoddy work are national, well known and registered with various bodies....at the mo i may be getting called as an expert witness in a case involving a window company and dangerous & non compliant work, & you would never expect them to be doing that today, would you

If the consumer choses to use a non registered firm then caveat emptor

an alternative approach is that all work must be notified to LABC.....

bottom line is you can never weed out all the rot, but you can make it as difficult as possible for them to operate

 

[Robotstar5]

I'm looking for someone to do some work on my guttering and when I saw a neighbour having guttering/downpipe/drains work done I asked if his builder could give me a quote, "he's not a builder, he's a landscape gardener"!

Any comments on No rogue Traders?

 

[brightspark]

I'm looking for someone to do some work on my guttering and when I saw a neighbour having guttering/downpipe/drains work done I asked if his builder could give me a quote, "he's not a builder, he's a landscape gardener"!

Any comments on No rogue Traders?

i was working on a building site doing patching plastering
after everyone making holes ect .the plasterer was on price per meter and wasnt interested in doing it i was getting 20 quid an hour its not my job but as long as its done right who cares who does it

 

[urban]

The scheme they brought in for electricians like the one mentioned has done nothing but make work and increased costs for the legitimate sparks amongst us, nothing's changed for the dodgy ones.

Whilst there are cowboys out there, as there is in any trade/occupation that program seriously diminishes the public's faith in the construction trades, a lot of the information on that program (I can only comment on the electrical side of things) is incorrect, for example melinda messenger telling people that plastic capping over cables will stop someone hammering a nail through it???

Whilst the people featured on that program are no doubt scumbags the list of false information is so long that they should be featured on a cowboy program themselves.

I'd love to see a program on cowboy customers... I'd guess there's more of them than there is cowboy builders out there.

 

[brightspark]

the only thing plastic capping does is stop the plasterers slicing in to the cable with there trowels its not even a requirement with dry lined walls or on a rewire. its best been used if walls have backing plaster though