Council Complaint

[the artfull-codger]

I once got a complaint from the council[enviroment health] about my ''smoking chimney'' of course they have to act on complaints, I had to monitor when I put on the fire etc for a number of weeks & make a diary & go outside & see if I could smell any smoke, when the time was up the e.h. officer contacted the complainer, who told the officer it was o-k now,after me being told this I was dying to say ''well fukc u I've done nothing different'' but I kept my gob shut & let him think he'd won & that was a few yrs ago,incidently I live in a village & we're NOT in a smoke controlled area it's townies moving in,they all want their little bit of ''emmerdale'' but don't want the tractors, cow *****,cockrells etc spoiling their little bit of country bliss,I have a colleague who's an e.h. officer & she said quite a lot of ''complaints'' are just neighbours with a grudge & the ''complaints'' never materialise.

slan go fol

 

[rtbcomp]

It sounds as though the council are gathering their own evidence, but if they asked the complainant to take photos and keep records surely they must intend to use him as a witness, in which case you have the right to cross examine.

Have word with the Citizen's Advice Bureau or a Solicitor should give you a first free consultation if it looks like going to court.

 

[Omniata]

It sounds as though the council are gathering their own evidence, but if they asked the complainant to take photos and keep records surely they must intend to use him as a witness, in which case you have the right to cross examine.

Have word with the Citizen's Advice Bureau or a Solicitor should give you a first free consultation if it looks like going to court.

I'd take what has happened purely as harassment...

Ask the council specifically why they have a problem now when there hasn't been a problem before...
And inform them that you have spoken to the other neighbours and that they don't have a problem, and that you expect the council to do the same...

If they refuse, state "we live in a democratic society and you have to provide a balanced view to any argument as defined under law when intending to prosecute"...

If they have only one complaint and it goes to court, take the friendly neighbours with you and list them as witnesses, in these cases the magistrate, or official, normally take a very dim view of both the council and the complainant...
If they continue you'll have legal grounds for harassment as far as I'm concerned as the council would have no cause to have spoken to you without the complainant making a complaint...


Also, I hope you have it in writing that they've asked the complainant to take records and photographs! As the complainant and now that the complaint has become formal it's the councils responsibility to take evidence as the complainant will provide a "biased" view, which under UK law in classed as, simply put, unfair...

 

[rtbcomp]

Which department is chasing you, Environmental Health or Planning?

 

[Shox Dr]

I can't help thinking there is more to this than you are telling us. You keep saying you have been "grassed up". A bit of a strange phase to use if you have been doing nothing wrong.


As the saying goes. There's 3 sides to a story; My side, their side, and the truth....

 

[NeilH]

omniata once again thanks for the help. all neighbours ive spoke to have been supportive. and will back me up, they've known me since i was a baby.

ive told the council that they are with me rather than against me, and he said if the complainant keeps pushing the issue then he will contact every neightbour in the street.

yes, it is only one complaint they have had, and from one person.

when he said about the complainant keeping logs of me, it was in person, and i told him if that happened then i would take him, or the council as a whole, to court, and then take the complainant to court as its illegal to take pictures of somebody without their permission.

rtbcomp its the planning department thats giving me the hassle. the complaint made is that i am running a business from my garage. which is not true. i have a full time job for gods sake lol

 

[GeorgeB]

the council guy told me that it will go to court if he can build a case against me and it will be nothing to do with the complainant. i.e. the complainant wont have to give any evidence, they will take me to court only on the basis of what the council themselves have against me.

I agree. I'm sure this will be the case.

its illegal to take pictures of somebody without their permission.

I disagree. I'm sure this is not the case.

 

[Drains]

NeilH, are you surprised the council won't tell you who the complainant is?

Also, to follow on from what Om said.
The council are like the Police - they are obliged to respond to complaints. If nobody has complained, they don't know anything has happened. You could have been carrying on a business illegally, but nobody has said anything, so they don't know.

Hey, we've got a guy dealing heroin in our street, but the cops won't know until I ring them, which I'm going to do. What's he going to say? - "it was fine till someone complained, and what's his name and address by the way?"

I'm not judging you Neil - I have no idea of the circumstances - but do you get my point?

And having a full time job doesn't stop you from running a business from home. An acquaintance of mine who had a full-time fab/weld job (it was his dad's co) had to stop operating a car paint spraying workshop from his house. Not one to please the neighbours, that!

 

[NeilH]

I agree. I'm sure this will be the case.



I disagree. I'm sure this is not the case.

if it is taken in a place that a person expects privacy, i.e. my own property, then it is illegal. thats how i understand it. i dont care if im wrong, but thats what im told.

NeilH, are you surprised the council won't tell you who the complainant is?

not really. but it doesnt mean its not annoying.

 

[NeilH]

ahh fast edit drains. like ive stated twice in this thread, i dont care about the complaint.

its the lies.

 

[Drains]

ahh fast edit drains. like ive stated twice in this thread, i dont care about the complaint.

its the lies.

I'm just trying to see it from the council's point of view, and their obligations. It's no reflection on you.

 

[brightspark]

u might get an asbo trouble is if u saw someone repairing other peoples cars u would think the same . running buisnes from home . it wouldnt bother me personaly unless u were at it regular makin loads of noise at funny hours but most folk arent like minded

 

[Omniata]

u might get an asbo trouble is if u saw someone repairing other peoples cars u would think the same . running buisnes from home . it wouldnt bother me personaly unless u were at it regular makin loads of noise at funny hours but most folk arent like minded

As long as it doesn't affect me I wouldn't give a toss...

I do all sorts of daft things, using an 80cc chainsaw, angle grinders, welders etc, but all within reasonable hours and times with extreme caution...

If it's earlier that 10:00 and later than 19:00 no noise, whatsoever...

And even then, I limit the "heavy" noise to midday/early afternoon...


Those are my choices and it's not for business, it's for me...


Other people have different choices, that's their choice and people that complain unreasonably to cause upset really do wind me up something (insert obscenities here) rotten...

 

[jimzzr]

I would keep a record of visits, general line of conversation, manner of enquires (aggressive, passive, leading etc), time and date them if possible.

A note on the use of 'electronic recording devices' I would not advise the use of these if all the dealings your having are pleasant and cordial, as you are obliged to inform the party your recording of doing so.
Any recordings taken without prior knowledge or consent would be deemed inadmissable in court or appeal hearings, regardless of them blatently lying.

If your communications have broken down and the visits consist of down right officious pompousness, then I would get camcorder out and shove it in their face, light blue touch paper and let em blow...

Actually this is not the case provided one of the parties (i.e. the person doing the recording) to a conversation knows the recording is taking place then it's legal. The recording, however, cannot be played to a third party - it is for ones own use/record. There would be nothing to stop you saying you had a recording or even transcribing that to text for disclosure to third parties, but you couldn't play it to someone without the permission of all parties to the conversation. With regards to court proceedings you'd probably get the recording admitted as evidence. What definitely is illegal is to leave a recorder running to record what other people are saying when you leave a room.

Jim

 

[Pete.]

when he said about the complainant keeping logs of me, it was in person, and i told him if that happened then i would take him, or the council as a whole, to court, and then take the complainant to court as its illegal to take pictures of somebody without their permission.

You can take pictures of pretty much anything and anyone if it's done FROM a public place. I don't know if that includes you standing on your own property though.

There are some exceptions, relating to security issues which is why people have been pulled for taking photos of underground stations etc in London but the general rule is if you're stood in a public place - snap away!

 

[rtbcomp]

This is confusing - if the Council want the complainant to collect evidence you must be able to challenge him in court, as you would challenge any evidence collected by the Council themselves.

The Council cannot just say "The complainant says this that and the other" that must surely be heresay? Otherwise they could just make up any old story and quote fictional witnesses.

If it's a planning issue they have to prove you're doing it for gain. You can provide witnesses who say "My uncle repaired my car for free," they have to find witnesses who say "He charged me £50 for an oil change."

Be aware they may tip HSE, HMRC and DWP off if they think you're running a business and may even pass the file onto the Environmental people.

I called the Police to a burglary and as a matter of course they informed HSE that I was running a business.

I had a similar complaint brought against me, but my premises are proper business premises and the Council official went away happy. He did mention that if I'd being working there for more than 7??? years then I'd have Established Use and wouldn't need planning permission.

I would agree there's not much you can do about anyone taking photographs, although if it gets annoying you may have a case for harrasment.

 

[NeilH]

You can take pictures of pretty much anything and anyone if it's done FROM a public place. I don't know if that includes you standing on your own property though.

There are some exceptions, relating to security issues which is why people have been pulled for taking photos of underground stations etc in London but the general rule is if you're stood in a public place - snap away!

well we are going to have to disagree as thats not how i understand it. as far as i know, if your in a place where you expect privacy, such as your own property, then its illegal without permission.

the general rule is if you're stood in a public place - snap away!

my property is not public.

can anybody clear this up with facts please? as this is the second time the photographing issue has been brought up, and from my internet research i think im right.

 

[CKJDJK]

As long as the photos are TAKEN from a public place then it is legal. i.e Google street view. e.g They cannot come on to your property to photo through your garage window but can take a photo from the street of your garage window and what is in there simlarly from their own property.
Chris

 

[mike os]

however, you could get your kids...or other relatives kids to play around & then complain that you suspect .......