Competent advice

[Ali]

This is good advice.

The bit above that concerns me from the prosecutions is quoted by our own @Parm

“How consultants achieve competence is up to them. However, they will have to be able to satisfy employers that they have a sufficient level of competence for the job in hand.

Trouble is they only get caught out when its too late! There are quite clearly described competency standards for most things. But Ive always found HSE a little vague, and some of the so called professionals Ive happened across in my career have been sadly lacking.

We used to call one Safety man from the office the decorator as all he did was hang paper on walls.

It was suggested that we could just hire a consultant when we needed advice rather than have someone on retainer. I said that sort of consultant is called a solicitor.

 

[Parm]

Tick box rams bulked up with enough copy and paste blurb to make a site foreman's eyes glaze over, ten seconds later its launched into a filing cabinet,job done

Bob

Same ****e you probably get from your on line RAMS Company

very harsh of me to say, but I also know how true it is

 

[Munkul]

Thing is, the law says you have to have RA for everything you do, so you get that box ticked. Not really a problem for general tasks where cut and paste works just fine. I mean, how many different ways can you write "slips, trips and falls" when there are no other specific hazards about?

 

[Kayos]

Thing is, the law says you have to have RA for everything you do, so you get that box ticked. Not really a problem for general tasks where cut and paste works just fine. I mean, how many different ways can you write "slips, trips and falls" when there are no other specific hazards about?

Have a read of my RAMS, couldn't be less tick box if I tried

 

[Munkul]

Have a read of my RAMS, couldn't be less tick box if I tried

I don't want to, I get enough of them myself
All I'm saying, is specific RAMS for welding in a confined space in an ATEX zoned area is TOTALLY different to a RAMS for walking about a site in safe areas from one area to another. Both have to be risk assessed by law. Which one is copy and paste?

 

[Parm]

I don't want to, I get enough of them myself
All I'm saying, is specific RAMS for welding in a confined space in an ATEX zoned area is TOTALLY different to a RAMS for walking about a site in safe areas from one area to another. Both have to be risk assessed by law. Which one is copy and paste?

None of them really.

 

[Pete.]

Have a read of my RAMS, couldn't be less tick box if I tried

Same here. My last demo job wasn't that complicated but I wrote 42 different RAMS for the works.

 

[Kayos]

Same here. My last demo job wasn't that complicated but I wrote 42 different RAMS for the works.

When I joined the company we had a bit of a copy and paste culture, I changed this on my sites and shortly after we got a full time health and safety manager.

Best thing we did was stipulate all rams must be task and site specific, yes sections will be repeated across sites but the majority have to be re-written for each new sitec

 

[Munkul]

None of them really.

In the same way I'm not qualified to write a RAMS for somewhere/some job I haven't seen, you're not qualified to judge a RAMS you haven't seen either
Bear in mind I'm being a bit flippant about "copy and paste", none of our RAMS are truly copy and paste, we aren't that stupid!

My point was, Proportionate To The Risk.

 

[daleyd]

Oh no - we're having a RAMS - off!

 

[Munkul]

My RAMS is bigger than yours.

 

[Parm]

My RAMS is bigger than yours.

I wrote my RAMS using type 30 BOLD Font

 

[Ali]

I wrote my RAMS using type 30 BOLD Font

They’re written in invisible ink, your honour.

 

[Parm]

In the same way I'm not qualified to write a RAMS for somewhere/some job I haven't seen, you're not qualified to judge a RAMS you haven't seen either
Bear in mind I'm being a bit flippant about "copy and paste", none of our RAMS are truly copy and paste, we aren't that stupid!

My point was, Proportionate To The Risk.

Cut and paste is perfectly acceptable if you are doing the same thing with the same circumstances on a regular basis at different locations.

Where it goes wrong is when folk cut and paste which may be correct for the task in hand but doesn't take into account the circumstances of where that task is to be carried out.

You don't need to reinvent the wheel every time, but you must think about where that wheel is to be used

This is something we see very very often, we describe it as RA / RAMS not being suitable and sufficient as there is no legal provision for cut and paste errors

 

[Pete.]

I once got presented with a set of rams that was so heavily cut and lasted it referred to three different clients, one of which had long since gone under.

 

[addjunkie]

I don't want to, I get enough of them myself
All I'm saying, is specific RAMS for welding in a confined space in an ATEX zoned area is TOTALLY different to a RAMS for walking about a site in safe areas from one area to another. Both have to be risk assessed by law. Which one is copy and paste?

If your walking past the welding when it goes pete tong, lets hope youve not cut and pasted either.

Last time my name was on the paperwork for welding on an oil filled pipe in a deep excavation, getting the troops to read it was the main issue, being welders they knew best!

 

[LiftedDisco]

In my old role, I seemed to end up with all the ****e that no-one else could be bothered with / understand... delete as appropriate.

Fast forward to the day when our full-time, NEBOSH qualified H&S Manager came to me moaning about a client on the basis that ‘they’d thrown back his RAMS for the third time...’

I’m not always known for my tolerance but he took real offence at me calling him a **** very early in the review - yep, he’d copy / pasted a standard build method which involved using a forklift and MEWPs. So far, so good as it was (generally) a standard build that we would carry out across the UK and Europe on a relocatable bit of kit that was unique to our business.

I was intrigued... this particular build was to be carried out 12m in the air on the roof of an office block.

“So... quite how are you going to use an all terrain FL on the office roof then...”

You couldn’t make it up - unsurprisingly, he left the business shortly after that!

 

[ukracer]

I would say nebosh or equivalent and several years experience these days

How do you get the experience

 

[mike os]

How do you get the experience

In a junior position

 

[Parm]

How do you get the experience

You have to earn your stripes bu[y starting at the bottom