Colchester Master 2500 or Harrison M300

[gridley51]

Mine is from Sperry's

Crikey,that`s a blast from the past.

 

[awemawson]

Mark, was that lathe from South Ghyll or Crewe Toll ?

AWEM
(ex Ferranti myself!)

 

[jugs]

Crikey,that`s a blast from the past.

CVA 55yrs, Not even run in yet, but maybe time for an oil change

 

[gridley51]

Mark, was that lathe from South Ghyll or Crewe Toll ?

AWEM
(ex Ferranti myself!)

Andrew,it was from Crewe Toll.Did they have a machine shop at the Gyle?
I went to Napier Tech when I was an apprentice,with loads of Ferranti guys.All from Crewe Toll and Robertson Ave.South Gyle didn`t exist in these days I think.

Mark.

 

[awemawson]

Andrew,it was from Crewe Toll.Did they have a machine shop at the Gyle?
I went to Napier Tech when I was an apprentice,with loads of Ferranti guys.All from Crewe Toll and Robertson Ave.South Gyle didn`t exist in these days I think.

Mark.

I was always based 'darn sarf' in London working remotely for the Wythensawe division in Manchester, but at one point I had offices in Livingston, and Rose St Aberdeen that came under my belt, that serviced both Robertson Ave, Crewe Toll, and South Gyle. I understood all but Rose St had machine shops, but I personally never went to SG

AWEM

 

[graffian]

CVA 55yrs, Not even run in yet, but maybe time for an oil change

I don't know about that.

 

[brookie456]

Were you the lucky man with the winning bid then?

I wish, and how I do. Understand where you're coming from stormin, but a lot of people get caught by a "name machine", de-rusted and a new paint job - a lot of ex-industry machines are ready for the smelter.

Regards
Iain
PS Nice to hear someone else has heard of Graziano - first time on one, couldn't believe that power and accuracy with such a "small" machine

 

[brookie456]

So really there are loads of machines out there but you have to be quick.
Someone else mentioned Town Woodhouse,another one of my favourites.I fell for one of these in my first year at tech back in the early sixties.We were the first year of apprentices to get day release and also got a brand new tech.The workshops were full of Colchester Students and one TW.Nobody but me wanted to use the TW,a truly good machine but not common.Other makes that pop up.old but good,Willson,Berry,Mitchell,Town,Stanley and dozens more that I can`t recall at the moment.
Sorry for the long post but machinery is my hobby as well as my living.
Mark[/QUOTE]

Town Woodhouse is a good machine, Schlesinger standard and tough as the proverbial. Le Blond toolroom stuff is good too

 

[the artfull-codger]

Well I would,but I gather from the tone of your post there is nothing to tell you so I won`t,and as you have only used one serious industrial lathe there is no point.

For the people interested in price,an early roundhead Colchester is always a stronger machine than the later squareheads.The later ones are really soft.
CVA`s,DSG 13 x 30`s and Butler/Elliott 460/550`s can be bought for £400-750.The CVA weighs about 1500kgs,the DSG slightly more.
If I had to buy only one lathe I would buy a Ward or a Herbert capstan lathe unless I needed to do screwcutting.These things are all at least 25yo,most of them going strong,very reliable and cheap.Downside is they are heavyish and deep so need a bit more space but the Herbert 2D and the Ward 2 series aren`t bad.
Mark.

''the tone of your post there is nothing to tell you'' ''you have only used one serious industrial lathe'' hmmnn that's a bit strong isn't it? I was merely asking for your expertise on these matters as I'm interested in another lathe & wondered what the faults with colchesters were, having said I've owned one for a number of years without any trouble,& as mentioned in my post I've used other ''serious industrial lathes''


slan go fol

 

[MrFluffy]

always comes down to cost vs use..... can you justify having 2-10k of machine that you use once a month when a £700 machine will do the job you want?

different if you need the extra precision or are using all day every day...

Acually I disagree but Im sure you wont get upset by that
I think often it would have worked out cheaper to farm stuff out for jobs than buy the machines to do the jobs myself. But... part of the journey is making them myself, not just learning how to open a chequebook. If you take that to the ultimate, I could just not play with stuff at all, spend all my time making more money and just buy finished products and be a good consumer.
For me, as my day job involves computers, working away late at night, the smoke wisping off the cutting edge and the fragrance of the cutting oil as it steams, building a bit for a bike or car is about as far removed from saving money or real work as I can get and long may it remain that way. So i buy what I can afford while still keeping my mrs and kids in the manner I should, not what I can justify, and lots of industrial grade stuff has followed me home over the years much to Mrs F's disgust

I also agree with the 600 group rant and how they went chinese quietly whilst denying it in a quite dishonest way, but Ive not been in the market to buy a new machine for years now anyway so I doubt I'm their consumer target market. Some clueless accountant just looked at a spreadsheet and shut the european manufacturing base probably. Since they don't teach much engineering quality and passion in what you make at accountancy uni, of course it was the right decision (from their perspective).

Dunno which of the two lathes id have, I bet theres not so very much in it and it would all come down to actual condition of the two being compared...

 

[Shox Dr]

Well I've just picked up a British built M300. for daft money. needs regrind, at a cost of 600 to including the head and tail stocks hand scraped back in to alinement to take into account the beds been reground. But once rebuilt I will have a good as new lathe for less than a scrapper off the bay of fleas. Worth around 6k Not that I will be selling it


Result!!!


I'll start a thread once I get stuck in with the renovation.

 

[stormin]

Well I've just picked up a British built M300. for daft money. needs regrind, at a cost of 600 to including the head and tail stocks hand scraped back in to alinement to take into account the beds been reground. But once rebuilt I will have a good as new lathe for less than a scrapper off the bay of fleas. Worth around 6k Not that I will be selling it


Result!!!


I'll start a thread once I get stuck in with the renovation.

That sounds very cheap for a re-grind and scraping in!
I was quoted around £1500 on a similar sized machine about three years back.
Don't you mean the saddle rather than the headstock. Headstock doesn't move so shouldn't wear

 

[Shox Dr]

True, but the tail stock is likely to have worn as well, and if you only have the tailstock reground it will not be in line with the head stock hence having both done

The guy I bought the lathe from has just had a Master 2500 reground by the same guys, cost him £550. and it feels better than new

I was quoted 500 for the bed, saddle, and cross slide, head and tail hand scraped back in is another 100, so 600 all in

 

[awemawson]

Usually the head stock is left alone. The tail stock is scraped to fit the re-ground bed and then the centre height adjusted by shimming between the sole piece and upper body. An alternative approach is to regrind the sole to a nominal flat, then bond an anti-friction material to it such as Marlon or Turcite, which is then ground to height. The apron and cross slide also benefit from this approach as if they are just scraped, they sit lower than they were, and you will have problems with the various feed screws and shafts no longer being concentric with the bits they fit.

(I've had several Colchester re-ground over the years)

AWEM

 

[Shox Dr]

I'm sure they know what they are doing, and I will speak to them before any work is carried out.

http://www.slidewayservices.co.uk/index.html

 

[hareng]

I would want to see work that they have carried out before organising.
Price is way too cheap, even 20 years ago you would pay well over a grand for a pukka job on a Myford.

A lot of it is the operator and how skilled, add to that the finish given. Not a grinder myself but have seen a fair few that had to be redone, same with scraping "Ive only took a thou off" yeah and 16 thou to put it right.

If its ground right it wont need scraping which is hit and miss at best.
If same material is removed from bed and V it will still line up exactly as now!

Hope they are ok i may even find them some work.
Harrisons were setup at factory on the base and should not be disturbed for transit. Just a passing comment.

Nice machines but prefer a clutch.

 

[Shox Dr]

The guy I bought the lathe from had a Master 2500 done by them. It was as smooth as a babies bum, and the guy told me it clocked in perfect.

As for rebuilding the M300, the first thing the grinders told me about was how to refit the bed to the base. With P38!


I'll start a thread on the rebuild once I start

 

[stormin]

If your happy with just a ground finish on the slideways then fine. But a proper machine is hand scraped to achieve the finish on the ways. A ground finish no matter how fine is microscopically a series of ridges and valleys, some of the ridges eventually get worn away unevenly to reduce accuracy. The worn metal from the ridges contributing to even further wear. A ground finish also has very little affinity for lubricating oil.

A hand scraped finish has lots of little hollows, these hollows can be likened to a shot peened finish, toughening the surface. The also serve to maintain a film of oil between the mating surfaces reducing friction and wear. The high spots on a scraped finish are less pronounced and less likely to wear into a grinding paste.

A hand scraped finish on a lathe would cost in the order of £2000 for a short bed machine. A grind can be done much cheaper.

 

[brookie456]

If your happy with just a ground finish on the slideways then fine. But a proper machine is hand scraped to achieve the finish on the ways. A ground finish no matter how fine is microscopically a series of ridges and valleys, some of the ridges eventually get worn away unevenly to reduce accuracy. The worn metal from the ridges contributing to even further wear. A ground finish also has very little affinity for lubricating oil.

A hand scraped finish has lots of little hollows, these hollows can be likened to a shot peened finish, toughening the surface. The also serve to maintain a film of oil between the mating surfaces reducing friction and wear. The high spots on a scraped finish are less pronounced and less likely to wear into a grinding paste.

A hand scraped finish on a lathe would cost in the order of £2000 for a short bed machine. A grind can be done much cheaper.

Amen stormin' - that's the correct way, not many do nowadays

 

[Shox Dr]

Thanks guys I appreciate your concerns, and believe me I don't cut corners, especially, on kit I intend on keeping. As I've said I'll post up the rebuild once I get on it. However it won't be for a few weeks as I'm still on with rebuilding the W/shop.