CNC router machine

[DAPPH]

Currently I'm researching the sort of new CNC router machine I can buy for cash as a working package up to about £33,000. I know a little bit as is oft said, " A little knowledge can be dangerous " so I'm seeking further enlightenment for you guys .

It's to do with me form filling for a medium sized lottery bid for middle to older aged people males or females of any country , class , leanings or creed etc etc.

It has to be a complete purchased package, ready to go once assembled by the sellers so will need to include a range of cutters & heads etc. , have a years support & maintenance included for free and have easily available programmes often found on the internet .

It should come complete with dust extraction facilities but not necessarily an extractor unit . , have the different heads, cutters , all cables & controls , a remote control if possible so it can be stopped by one or two observers if things start to go away .

We want to learn CNC programming for the machine as well as buying in some some basic programmes to play with to cut 30 mm or so thick wood, ply , 10 mm or more aluminium , 10 mm or more brass & plastics .

I've found AXYZ machines.. seen one of the entry level machines in action & am impressed to say the least as it seems ideal for our needs .

The only trouble is that I have to get the prices for three machines from different companies to send with our bid so I'm looking for UK available machines with a working bed area of 2.4 x 1.5 mtr .

Can any of you guys on here give me the names of any other UK suppliers please so I can take a deeper better look ?

Dave .

 

[julianf]

Here's me thinking that, for 15k I could build one, spend the next year teaching how to use it, and be £18k up.

My point is that £33k just seems to be hemmoraging money. Place I used to work at got a plasma table around that size, with that sort of level of support, and I think it was £12k. I know that's plasma, but even still...

So, I have no answer to your question, but that does seem a lot of cash.

 

[MattH]

I don’t think it’s massive money tbh. My Tekcel is around £45K ex vat without an ATC with it’s more like £60K.
Design software runs around £3-5K, European / American cutters will be £20 - £150 each so factor in at least £1K for cutters.

All 8x4 machines will want a 3ph supply due to having in general 10HP vac pumps for hold down.

So £33K inc seems thin for a non-Chinese machine with a full package and support (the last service I had on my Tekcel was £1.5K).

Hence why I’m building the next one, £20K in parts for a machine comparable to a £120K commercial machine.

 

[MattH]

CompleteCNC.co.uk

 

[DAPPH]

Thanks Matt ,
What's an ATC ? … (Auto Tilting Cutter ? )

Chinese machines ……. didn't think of that due to spares & replacement parts

 

[Hood]

Thanks Matt ,
What's an ATC ? … (Auto Tilting Cutter ? )

Chinese machines ……. didn't think of that due to spares & replacement parts

Automatic Tool Changer

 

[MattH]

Automatic tool changer.

You can get an 8x4 stepper driven Chinese router for £7-10K all in.
I wouldn’t recommend them for production work but training and development I’m sure they’d be fine.

 

[WorkshopChris]

Have a look at both, but your budget might (will) fall short.
Both are serious machines.

SCM Pratix available in lots of configurations.
Felder Profit H08 available in lots of configurations.

You might be lucky but i think you are stuck inbetween price points, well above the small ebay type that need work and have basic features and just below commercial specified products.

For serious work a tool changer is a must.

 

[DAPPH]

Just been looking at Matts Tekcel , had an online chat , they are sending me a shed load of info . Also found something else out I've been looking for " Vetric " the program that allows you to set the machine up ? I couldn't think of the name at the time but it's exactly what I wanted.

So designing things to work with Vetric … any special drawing programmes fairly easy to use so long as I can get someone to hand draw the basic end picture etc.? ( Or am I totally confused ? )

 

[Hood]

Vectric is CADCAM, ie you do your drawing in it (or import one) and then choose the toolpaths etc and it will write the G Code for you. There are a few versions if I recall correctly, the most common one is V-Carve which is probably best suited for signs etc.

The CADCAM I use is BobCAD although I really only use it for the CAM side.

 

[MattH]

Vectric make Aspire and Vcarve Pro etc. These are design programs that can create vectors and then create toolpaths and output GCode for whatever machine you using.

This is CAD and CAM combined.

 

[MattH]

Lol, Hood keeps beating me to it.

 

[Hood]

SheetCAM is another CADCAM that might be worth looking at, I think it is more 2D so it will depend on what you are intending to do with the router.

 

[DAPPH]

Have a look at both, but your budget might (will) fall short.
Both are serious machines.

SCM Pratix available in lots of configurations.
Felder Profit H08 available in lots of configurations.

You might be lucky but i think you are stuck inbetween price points, well above the small ebay type that need work and have basic features and just below commercial specified products.

For serious work a tool changer is a must.

I like that idea of a tool changer it would be advantageous indeed. It's not for a business nor for massive large numbers as commercial use as such, but will be used to teach people how to design , programme & or operate the machine .

So far we have around 20 people who are happy to give it a go , some are youngsters at 20 yrs. plus , who are currently out of work.
Some are like me ...nearly seventy , some are disabled in mind & or body , not totally wrecked but able to learn to do something new that needs a reasonable brain to over come the physical & mental problems . .
The end products may be one off's or several hundred .

 

[Hood]

BTW just in case you are unsure
CAD is Computer Aided Design (sometimes also called Computer Aided Drawing) and CAM is Computer Aided Machining or Manufacturing.

 

[DAPPH]

SheetCAM is another CADCAM that might be worth looking at, I think it is more 2D so it will depend on what you are intending to do with the router.

When you say 3D just how 3D ?
Could you .....…. say rout out a opening rose flower with a pair of leaves & stem out of a 3 x 3 x 8 inch tall block of Black Dutch walnut wood & leave a half inch thick plinth at the bottom for the rose to stand on ?

 

[MattH]

You might be better of looking at a smaller machine. The big ones are for production.
AXYZ make the Pacer range which are very solid and have ATC’s but are available from smaller sizes and up.

 

[MattH]

When you say 3D just how 3D ?
Could you .....…. say rout out a opening rose flower with a pair of leaves & stem out of a 3 x 3 x 8 inch tall block of Black Dutch walnut wood & leave a half inch thick plinth at the bottom for the rose to stand on ?

No, that would require 4 or 5 axis. You are look at 3 axis (possibly with a 4th but let’s not confuse things).
So imagine a 3d part that is cut top down, you can’t have undercuts etc.
3d parts are generally made on routers by rastering the cut I.e. scanning back and forth cutting a small slice of profile every time.

 

[DAPPH]

We sat and discussed that a few days ago & came to the conclusion that to have to cut 2.4 x 1.5 sheets in half might be more problematic that it first seems for our membership . Even though we have a three phase cast iron bed 12 inch blade industrial saw bench . Looking at sheets of material, we've found a direct import company where we can buy 20 sheets at a time of various thicknesses of all manner of materials quite cheaply even though it includes delivery & vat .

AXYZ have given me a price for their pacer that appears rather off the wall high .

 

[Hood]

Here is some info to give an idea of what 2D is able to produce
http://help.autodesk.com/view/INVHSM/2018/ENU/?guid=GUID-A999FD6B-3A09-46CC-82F9-FA9D959852F3&v=2019
And 3D
http://help.autodesk.com/view/INVHSM/2018/ENU/?guid=GUID-16189902-F8F4-4854-BEE6-46E49F5671E0

As Matt says if wanting to get fancy you really need 4,or 5 axes.