Cloos GLC 351-B not working

[Nix2]

Hello.
I'm looking for a Cloos GLC 351-B wiring diagram with a separate CK 68-B feeder.
The symptoms are as follows: There is power, 3 phases, the fan works, neither the feeder nor the main contactor reacts at all (so there is no welding current or wire feed)

Regards !

 

[Erie Fred]

Did it run before ?
or is it new to you ?

 

[Nix2]

The welder is my friend's, he says it worked fine before...

 

[Erie Fred]

The welder is my friend's, he says it worked fine before...

Well, let's look at the gun trigger.
Continuity from gun to wire feeder ?
voltage present on the terminal ?

 

[Nix2]

The gun trigger is ok,
Continuity from gun to wire feeder, too .
The control transformer is also ok, (it has several voltages) there are several fuses on it, they are all operational.

 

[Jan-DIY]

The red socket on the feeder is originally for the torch button but as I see it is converted to EU style.

 

[Nix2]

Yes, the device worked all the time with the Euro holder, so this socket was not used at all.

 

[eddie49]

Since the wirefeed is not starting and the welding power source is not getting enabled, the fault must be fairly early in the trigger switch circuit.
The two small sockets in the Eurotorch socket that accept the tiny pins from the torch trigger switch must drive either some electronics or possibly a relay. Either way, in the "Trigger Off" condition there must be a voltage across these two small sockets. Try measuring that voltage, then change your meter to DC Amps ( or milliamps ) and use the two meter probes across the small sockets, simulating a closed trigger switch, and check the current flow. If the trigger is circuit is electronic, rather than a relay, that current will be very low.
Next step would be to look over the components in the feeder, checking relays, the AC and DC side of any rectifiers, and the voltage across any large capacitors that could be smoothing DC power supplies.

 

[Nix2]

I checked it more thoroughly and there is a clear reaction to the button in the handle - one of the buttons clearly clicks small relays on board "A".
I've never heard this "clicking" before because it was very loud fan, and this is a large 3 phase motor...

Board "A" has 6 small relays, from which relay K5 or K6 clicks. By the way I wonder why these two control boards are so complicated (especially the "A" board - has it has a total of 18 integrated circuits) The "B" board probably controls the feed, because it has a large heat sink (so transistor or power thyristor - executive element).

The device does not seem to have a synergy function, (a z additional functions have only 2T and 4T) because there are no regulatory elements for synergy, therefore, a very simple feed control system based on a control transistor could work here PWM. I'm right ? Maybe it would be faster and simpler to just replace the original control with a simple switching plate main transformer and wire feed speed control than to look for faults in the original two plates?

 

[Jan-DIY]

Did you mean the fan with 3phase motor?
Early Cloos machines are equipped with some wind switch to detect proper flow from the fans. If you got the wrong phase arrangement these switch will not enable.

 

[Nix2]

I checked the fan thoroughly. However, it is a 1-phase fan (although it is switched on with a small contactor), and there is no air flow sensor.

 

[eddie49]

I agree that the electronics inside looks far more complex than necessary for this simple and old machine.
The wirefeed unit looks very simple - although it probably has accurate speed control, from a tachogenerator or an optical chopper disc.
The power source is quite basic. It has 2 x 12 ranges, and I think 2T/4T and variable burnback? There is no sign of synergic function, nor anything that could select or control that function.
The logic chips are mostly late-70's CMOS types, including AND and OR gates and contact noise suppression buffers. They are all in sockets, so repair would be easy after locating any fault.
I would suggest first measuring and checking voltages around the following components:
- Board A has four bridge rectifiers, V1 to V4, with capacitors and an LM340T12 voltage regulator
- Board B has two bridge rectifiers

This Polish company offer many different types of replacement MIG control boards:

http://www.regulatorytyrystorowe.pl

Select "Elektronika migomatów" in the left-hand column. There is a board for external feeders, capable of driving motors from 12 to 60v and up to 10 Amps. However, I doubt if they have a board that uses a tachogenerator. They may be able to perform basic static tests and repair your own boards.

 

[Nix2]

The Migomat was repaired - because the machine actually had no synergy, a "ordinary" PWM controller was used, and the switching on of the main contactor was also carried out on a "ordinary" 24VDC relay. Thank you all for your help.