Climate change

[MattF]

That is why I find it odd that people wish to enter into a debate but then refuse to actually engage.

They don't refuse to engage. They merely realise it's pointless engaging with some.

You @MattF on the other hand saw this coming in your first post alluding to it being a contentious thread but can't wait to start talking about me. As usual.

Yes, I have noticed a theme, it always involves you for example. Much better for everyone if you were to stick to discussing the topic at hand.

Seriously? I couldn't give a toss about either this thread or yourself, but because I noted you're going off on one of your rolls, yet again, & make a comment, I'm at fault? You pay yourself far more heed than I do. Do you honestly think I've nothing better, or more interesting, to do than watch your posts in the hope of an opening to comment? Get a grip. Your "debates" simply become tiresome, as they always lead a thread to the same conclusion.

With regard to my earlier post, I'm assuming I suggested this thread would end up locked? Do you wonder why?

You need to realise that there's a big difference between a discussion/debate, versus trying to ram your version of "truth" down everyones throat.

 

[prepman]

Don’t know where you get that idea from. Got any sources?

Sea levels can vary by that sort of amount but the extreme does not indicate “average”. In any case we are currently living in the middle of an ice age albeit currently an interglacial. AGW has upset the apple cart, the previously well known global variability has been given a kick into the unknown.

As has been observed, the current trend of global warming may not be so bad for the UK which has dramatically variable weather anyway. I wouldn’t be too sure though, extreme weather is never extremely good. In any event, this is not so good for, say, Bangladesh which will lose it’s fresh water long before it literally floods…

Having worked in Sakhalin in winter at -38C ( Freezer is -20c ) in the 'warmer' south of the island, as the north was -55C, it amazed me to realise that the UK was in fact further North. The Gulf stream is the only difference.......'The Day after Tomorrow' ? Having also worked in deserts at 40C +, it is apparent that a lot of regions are marginally habitable. Very slight changes will tip the balance. At present we are buffered from the changes that are happening. But we are not impervious. We really need other parts of the world for our existance. I'm 700ft above sea level, but the power stations tend be near or at sea level.

 

[selectedgrub]

So how do you guys stay warm in the winter?

 

[prepman]

So how do you guys stay warm in the winter?

I don't....but my rheumatologist moves to a place called New Zealand every winter. (seriously not a joke)

 

[prepman]

Well large tracts of the Sahara produced huge amounts of corn for the Roman Empire but now look at it ! But I think that was over farming.

There was a documentary on it, the answer was quite complicated. Can't remember the outcome. It'll be on Youtube somewhere.

 

[Burdekin]

If you want to delve deeper into the possible consequences of climate change have a look at what Paul Gilding has to say; https://www.paulgilding.com/ https://www.paulgilding.com/advocacy/#opinion it’s much more than just changing weather.

BBC Two - Climate Change: Ade on the Frontline, Series 1, The Solomon Islands and Australia

Ade sees the damage that climate change is causing, and finds out how we can fight it.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[prepman]

Well sea level change is nothing new. In Roman times the end of my field was a harbour from which they exported iron locally extracted in bloomeries. Now we are about 9 metres above sea level - so they left in AD430 - not that long in geological time. They also had really quite extensive wine production, which interestingly is actually now coming back - we have two vinyards in the village.

These things go in cycles, unlike Greta who wants us to go ON cycles.

In those days people moved around to suit changing conditions (semi-nomadic). but all the imaginary lines drawn around the world (called borders) make it non-viable. Except by warfare. Root cause analysis is......population. There's too many of us already and growing. There's a website devoted to population and they reckon 10% of the existing world population is the ideal. In order to feed this bloated population requires intensive farming, mass production and transport, which all rely on ....you guessed it oil/gas. Ironically an industry that gave me a good income. There's a a Youtube channel aircrash investigation, in which they discuss the tragedy of the Concord disaster. The details on fuel I found staggering. 95 tons initially, 2 tons taxing, 15 tons (not sure) take-off and the rest for the remaining journey. That's just 1 plane!
We're locked into something we can't escape from. Can't build an extension to the Earth.
As to me .....I'll be long gone. It's my grandchildren's future that breaks my heart.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

So how do you guys stay warm in the winter?

There's a lot of us - I'm sure you can work out what's causing that....

 

[Blobber]

So how do you guys stay warm in the winter?

Throw sticks on the fire like they have done for centuries, hows it done your end?

 

[prepman]

So how do you guys stay warm in the winter?

Forgot to say ......Also by playing cricket (badly)

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Forgot to say ......Also by playing cricket (badly)

In Winter??

 

[prepman]

In Winter??

By going on tour

 

[Screwdriver]

The Gulf stream is the only difference.......

I don't do cold (I'm half Iranian) but plenty of desert experience. Have to agree the UK is in a peculiar spot weather wise. I would say our climate is unusually temperate considering our lit. position in the world but words can be deceptive/contentious.

Difficult to predict what may happen to this delicate balance in the UK but while the Gulf Stream might eventually change course, it is a HUGE volume of water with a MASSIVE amount of energy keeping it going.

One of the many difficulties in modelling climate and any dynamic non-linear system is how a small change will make a difference in the longer term. Early climate models did not account for the amount of energy the oceans could suck up trying to maintain a balance while the weather swirls around dissipating excess energy (the difference between energy in and energy re-radiated back out).

So while it may not seem the earth is getting warmer with a finger in the air, those tiny changes in average global temperature (aka global warming) represent a huge change afoot behind the scenes. All that energy being absorbed in the oceans temperature has to come out somewhere and the way the earth deals with it is what we call "weather". That is why all the evidence predicts the incidence of "extreme weather" events becoming more prevalent in a warming environment.

We are (none of us!!) clever enough to fully understand the complexities of planetary ecologies. Everything feeds into the mechanism where the "butterfly effect" is a very real phenomena. We might recognise how changing one parameter (like ocean temperature) will have AN effect but it can be virtually impossible to say what the precise effect long term will be.

The old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it" springs to mind. The Earth has clearly evolved to become a nice comfy place for humans to live. Any change at all is going to upset that delicate balance and all the indications are, those changes are not for the better...

 

[prepman]

I don't do cold (I'm half Iranian) but plenty of desert experience. Have to agree the UK is in a peculiar spot weather wise. I would say our climate is unusually temperate considering our lit. position in the world but words can be deceptive/contentious.

Difficult to predict what may happen to this delicate balance in the UK but while the Gulf Stream might eventually change course, it is a HUGE volume of water with a MASSIVE amount of energy keeping it going.

One of the many difficulties in modelling climate and any dynamic non-linear system is how a small change will make a difference in the longer term. Early climate models did not account for the amount of energy the oceans could suck up trying to maintain a balance while the weather swirls around dissipating excess energy (the difference between energy in and energy re-radiated back out).

So while it may not seem the earth is getting warmer with a finger in the air, those tiny changes in average global temperature (aka global warming) represent a huge change afoot behind the scenes. All that energy being absorbed in the oceans temperature has to come out somewhere and the way the earth deals with it is what we call "weather". That is why all the evidence predicts the incidence of "extreme weather" events becoming more prevalent in a warming environment.

We are (none of us!!) clever enough to fully understand the complexities of planetary ecologies. Everything feeds into the mechanism where the "butterfly effect" is a very real phenomena. We might recognise how changing one parameter (like ocean temperature) will have AN effect but it can be virtually impossible to say what the precise effect long term will be.

The old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it" springs to mind. The Earth has clearly evolved to become a nice comfy place for humans to live. Any change at all is going to upset that delicate balance and all the indications are, those changes are not for the better...

Just hope the Butterfly stays on Mount Fuji?
BTW Did have climate modelling on PC running in slack-time for research 20yrs ago, part of a global effort, I think or at least UK. Also the Gulf stream is slowing.

 

[julianf]

So how do you guys stay warm in the winter?

Our central heating system has two sources of heat -

A rayburn that is normally used to burn pallets from the local builders yard, and a pressure jet boiler that has been re-jetted to burn biodiesel derived from kitchen waste.

 

[Morrisman]

104 meters above sea level and 81 miles away from the nearest sea. Heacham Beach, Norfolk

think I’ll be ok, will water travel that far?

I’m 90m above sea level, and about as far from the sea as you can get, here in the Midlands.

 

[Morrisman]

Not so much global warming that worries me, its the pollution in other ways like plastic , some man made stuff is irreversible, if you listen to any fishermen they'll tell you in they're life time there's been a dramatic drop in fish, all through over fishing harbours around N.Ireland have been hit hard

Overpopulation and pollution is the biggest issue the planet faces, in my learned opinion.

And greed. The massive accrued wealth of a certain few individuals is obscene, when a good percentage of the global population is living in poverty and hunger.

I have no ideas how to redistribute that wealth fairly, but it’s still very wrong.

 

[ajlelectronics]

I have no ideas how to redistribute that wealth fairly, but it’s still very wrong.

You can't, that is just the politics of envy and before long we would be under communist rule. Most of us* have the ability to put in the work and take the risks that could lead to wealth, if you start stealing the money that people like Bezos make, then they will not bother and so bang goes thousands of jobs worldwide.

*Those that truly can't rather than can't be bothered should naturally have a safety net. Those who are bone idle, should not.

 

[Parm]

I’m 90m above sea level, and about as far from the sea as you can get, here in the Midlands.

We are both ok

 

[julianf]

You can't, that is just the politics of envy

That old line. It's a classic.

Be sure to mention communism also.

Oh.. I just saw you did! Now there's a surprise.

Do you even know the difference between, say, democratic socialism, or a social democrat? No, probably not.

It's all just envy and gulags, right?