Wallace
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- 7,777
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- Staines, Middlesex, England.
What sort of prices did they charge?
- Thread starter gasket999
- Start date
What sort of prices did they charge?
AndyStobbs
Member
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- 2,475
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- North West England
I got the pump on my SE26C200 stripped today - hardly surprising that it made very little air. One inlet valve completely broken off, passing between the two cylinders because of breeched valve plate gasket (probably due to over heating)
Metal fragments embedded in piston crowns from broken valve finger. Fortunately no cylinder damage nor piston scoring. Ordered parts from MM £65 delivered for full gasket set, a pair of exhaust and a pair of inlet valves.
Metal fragments embedded in piston crowns from broken valve finger. Fortunately no cylinder damage nor piston scoring. Ordered parts from MM £65 delivered for full gasket set, a pair of exhaust and a pair of inlet valves.
AndyStobbs
Member
- Messages
- 2,475
- Location
- North West England
Rebuilt my pump on my compressor and its down to 4 mins now to fill to 10bar from empty. Much better
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
Ok - so three months on and I've finally got round to looking at the compressor again. House renovation distracted me… then I needed a distraction from the house… back to the compressor.
So after our last exciting adventure we discovered that the entire top end of the pump was full of paint. The upper piston rings were in tight and there was black muck behind them (the second rings down are a little grubby, but OK and the oil scraper rings were fine).
The motor had been badly messed with with melted wire, a missing terminal block, a bypassed (and missing) overload switch and lots of chocolate blocks - all of this was housed in a smashed plastic housing.
In light of this I decided to strip the entire pump for inspection. I'll have to do the same with the motor once the pump is back on.
All pistons, con rods and big-end caps were numbered and a diagram made so I can be sure they go back in the correct place.
The flywheel was removed (sorry no pics). This is held on with a large bolt and washer - NB the big bolt has a reverse thread. Gentle tapping with a dead blow mallet would not move it off the crank, so I used a Clarke 3-legged puller and it popped right off (don't lose the woodruff key).
The big end caps were removed in situ - NB the bolts holding on the caps are done up to a surprisingly high torque (I've got some torque specs from Clarke written down somewhere).
There was also evidence of a white sealant on some bolt threads (which could be cooked PTFE tape or a white thread locker) and blue Hylomar spread across many of the gaskets.
With the pistons out, the gudgeon pins were removed - these are held in with a pair of circlips.
And then all the parts were laid out for inspection.
They were cleaned and then coated in WD40 before being popped on a drying rack.
I removed the bearing caps from each end of the crank - one was a carrier that supported the outer race of the bearing, the second was simply a dust cover, with the bearing being pressed into the crank case. I'll leave the crank where it is and will degrease around it - no reason to remove it as the bearing is pressed in and I din't have a replacement. Its tempting to blueprint the thing and reassemble with correctly sized motorcycle pistons/rings complete with bearing shells and quality timken bearings. But that would be the very essence of polishing a turd. Axtually thats harsh - the pump, though cheaply made has proven itself to stand up to full-blown torture from its PO without sign of damage - and they're cheap enough to by new. Well done Clarke.
The bearing carrier above came away from the housing by 1/4 inch but then just rotated, so I reversed the Clarke puller and used the two-leg function to pop it all the way off.
this one shows where I have removed the dust cover and shows the pressed-in bearing which is clamped firmly on the crank - I'm not going to stub this end so will lead the crank floating in the crankcase for now.
So after our last exciting adventure we discovered that the entire top end of the pump was full of paint. The upper piston rings were in tight and there was black muck behind them (the second rings down are a little grubby, but OK and the oil scraper rings were fine).
The motor had been badly messed with with melted wire, a missing terminal block, a bypassed (and missing) overload switch and lots of chocolate blocks - all of this was housed in a smashed plastic housing.
In light of this I decided to strip the entire pump for inspection. I'll have to do the same with the motor once the pump is back on.
All pistons, con rods and big-end caps were numbered and a diagram made so I can be sure they go back in the correct place.
The flywheel was removed (sorry no pics). This is held on with a large bolt and washer - NB the big bolt has a reverse thread. Gentle tapping with a dead blow mallet would not move it off the crank, so I used a Clarke 3-legged puller and it popped right off (don't lose the woodruff key).
The big end caps were removed in situ - NB the bolts holding on the caps are done up to a surprisingly high torque (I've got some torque specs from Clarke written down somewhere).
There was also evidence of a white sealant on some bolt threads (which could be cooked PTFE tape or a white thread locker) and blue Hylomar spread across many of the gaskets.
With the pistons out, the gudgeon pins were removed - these are held in with a pair of circlips.
And then all the parts were laid out for inspection.
They were cleaned and then coated in WD40 before being popped on a drying rack.
I removed the bearing caps from each end of the crank - one was a carrier that supported the outer race of the bearing, the second was simply a dust cover, with the bearing being pressed into the crank case. I'll leave the crank where it is and will degrease around it - no reason to remove it as the bearing is pressed in and I din't have a replacement. Its tempting to blueprint the thing and reassemble with correctly sized motorcycle pistons/rings complete with bearing shells and quality timken bearings. But that would be the very essence of polishing a turd. Axtually thats harsh - the pump, though cheaply made has proven itself to stand up to full-blown torture from its PO without sign of damage - and they're cheap enough to by new. Well done Clarke.
The bearing carrier above came away from the housing by 1/4 inch but then just rotated, so I reversed the Clarke puller and used the two-leg function to pop it all the way off.
this one shows where I have removed the dust cover and shows the pressed-in bearing which is clamped firmly on the crank - I'm not going to stub this end so will lead the crank floating in the crankcase for now.
Last edited:
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
I found Clarke's aftermarket service team to be superb. The first thing I did was to identify my compressor from its serial number and call and ask for a parts diagram, manual and, if possible, a wiring diagram for the motor:
They sent me the lot including a build sheet.
The wiring diagram had been done by one of the service team who knew that one was not available, sadly the wiring diagram isn't for my compressor - is for the other one (same as RTB's in the thread above I think)
They sent me the lot including a build sheet.
The wiring diagram had been done by one of the service team who knew that one was not available, sadly the wiring diagram isn't for my compressor - is for the other one (same as RTB's in the thread above I think)
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
Once I had the parts list, I could identify the bits I wanted to replace and then check on prices.
Some were surprisingly cheap - others a little too dear.
For the pump, I decided on:
For the motor I ordered:
All in all, a superb level of service form Clarke. They even emailed me photos of parts when I didn't know what they were called - they passed me to certain people int he team who knew these machines well and generally helped out wherever they could.
Most of the above are parts that will never normally 'break' or need replacing, they ere simply missing from my compressor - bear in mind that I had parts missing from both the pump and the motor - I wouldn't spend that much on the pump alone as a new one isn't that dear - especially on a VAT free day. Things that were surprisingly expensive were piston rings, pistons and the cylinders - the price for these three was more than a complete pump and, with no damage to these items (that won't polish-out) I'll reuse the originals.
I later (after help from this thread) discovered that I should have has a "motor terminal box". This is the little connection block which you can't find anywhere, until you happen to learn what it is called.
The parts list shows that the connections should have been 2BA (M5) blue crimp rings - so I ordered a "PL5 terminal block" - this is the "motor terminal block" mentioned above - from here it cost about £12 delivered.
I will pick up some crimp connectors from Screwfix on Saturday.
Some were surprisingly cheap - others a little too dear.
For the pump, I decided on:
- A complete gasket set for the pump (was really cheap)
- A new oil seal fro the crank bearing carrier
- An air filter and housing (I had a housing, but no lid or filter element - you can buy them separate but it was almost the same price to get a complete housing/filter element)
For the motor I ordered:
- A new capacitor box - the big box that sits on top of the motor holding the wiring and capacitors (not listed in the parts diagram, but they had one on the shelf - they sent me the wrong one first and then immediately sent me the correct one without requesting the first one back)
- A new Overload switch
All in all, a superb level of service form Clarke. They even emailed me photos of parts when I didn't know what they were called - they passed me to certain people int he team who knew these machines well and generally helped out wherever they could.
Most of the above are parts that will never normally 'break' or need replacing, they ere simply missing from my compressor - bear in mind that I had parts missing from both the pump and the motor - I wouldn't spend that much on the pump alone as a new one isn't that dear - especially on a VAT free day. Things that were surprisingly expensive were piston rings, pistons and the cylinders - the price for these three was more than a complete pump and, with no damage to these items (that won't polish-out) I'll reuse the originals.
I later (after help from this thread) discovered that I should have has a "motor terminal box". This is the little connection block which you can't find anywhere, until you happen to learn what it is called.
The parts list shows that the connections should have been 2BA (M5) blue crimp rings - so I ordered a "PL5 terminal block" - this is the "motor terminal block" mentioned above - from here it cost about £12 delivered.
I will pick up some crimp connectors from Screwfix on Saturday.
Last edited:
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
The instruction manual is generic to all SE and VE-series compressors.
Amusing was the maintenance chart (see page 17). It says, among other things, that the big end bearings should be checked 6-monthly and replaced if worn…
There are no big end bearings (or shells), nor are there any little end bearings. The aluminium conrod and big-end caps simply sit on the crank.
Amusing was the maintenance chart (see page 17). It says, among other things, that the big end bearings should be checked 6-monthly and replaced if worn…
There are no big end bearings (or shells), nor are there any little end bearings. The aluminium conrod and big-end caps simply sit on the crank.
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
So… thats where I'm up to.
With my Miss Marple hat on I think that I can see what befell our unfortunate victim in the short 12-months that it was owned by the hapless PO.
1) it has been tipped on its side or into something, cracking the glass of the pressure gauge (no issue there - just a visual defect) and smashing the plastic capacitor box. I suspect that the air filter cover was lost at this point so it was run without a filter.
2) there has been some electrical tom-foolery - I suspect the overload switch has been tripping and they have MacGyvered a solution by removing it and the terminal block and replacing them both with horrible connections and chocolate blocks - which may have lead to the wiring melting.
3) They have dropped a tin of red, chalky garage floor paint onto it while it was running - this has gone everywhere… into the capacitor box, into the pressure switch housing and has been sucked into the intake of the pump. The paint has caked-up the inlet and exhaust vaves but not before depositing a large amount on the top of the piston crown. The paint has got hot and turned black and a fair bit found its was behind the first and second piston rings. Not much seems to have hit the exhaust (into the tank) and none has reached the bottom end.
4) they've obviously done a half-arsed attempt to cover up the damage by spraying the flywheel, pulley and mesh guard with black paint - right over the chalky garage paint.
Damage - on the pump, surprisingly, virtually none. The pistons are marked but I sware I don't think this had anything to do with the paint or the subsequent poor lurication - the pump is a lovely, simple thing to work on but is made to a very loose tolerance with lots of slop and movement in the parts - I suspect the marks on the pistons (which are incredibly flimsy and soft) are simply them moving around more than they would or not being perfectly true with the bores during its first run.
The piston rings are absolutely fine - I carefully removed them before putting them and the pistons/conrods in the dishwasher and they've come up lovely. I wouldn't re-use them on a car but on this pump it is perfectly acceptable (especially as a new set of four was about £40).
There is one mark in a bore, which again I suspect is an assembly defect and will hone right out on Saturday.
The valves and spring plates were cleaned up and found to be spot on. The pressure relief valve, reducing bushes and cast-iron pipework is all fine too - the little ball in the pressure valve moves freely.
The crank bearings are spot on too - no sign of wear or contamination.
I'll remove the red paint and any loose blue paint and lightly hone the bores, delicately polish out the marks on the piston skirts, re-use the piston rings and reassemble with lots of fresh oil, new gaskets and a new air filter. Will run it in for a few cycles and will change the oil.
Once reassembled the entire assembly will be painted in Hammered blue - checking the assembly sheet and the new ones in MM and its clear they assemble it bare before spraying it in primer and then hammered blue (the paint code is not recognised so I'll use whatever blue hammerite I have in the garage). They paint over everything - the flywheel, pulleys, wiring, pipework, the works. he only things painted black are the mesh guard and the end cap for the motor.
So, next post will be on the weekend when I should have the pump reassembled before turning attention to the motor… watch this space.
With my Miss Marple hat on I think that I can see what befell our unfortunate victim in the short 12-months that it was owned by the hapless PO.
1) it has been tipped on its side or into something, cracking the glass of the pressure gauge (no issue there - just a visual defect) and smashing the plastic capacitor box. I suspect that the air filter cover was lost at this point so it was run without a filter.
2) there has been some electrical tom-foolery - I suspect the overload switch has been tripping and they have MacGyvered a solution by removing it and the terminal block and replacing them both with horrible connections and chocolate blocks - which may have lead to the wiring melting.
3) They have dropped a tin of red, chalky garage floor paint onto it while it was running - this has gone everywhere… into the capacitor box, into the pressure switch housing and has been sucked into the intake of the pump. The paint has caked-up the inlet and exhaust vaves but not before depositing a large amount on the top of the piston crown. The paint has got hot and turned black and a fair bit found its was behind the first and second piston rings. Not much seems to have hit the exhaust (into the tank) and none has reached the bottom end.
4) they've obviously done a half-arsed attempt to cover up the damage by spraying the flywheel, pulley and mesh guard with black paint - right over the chalky garage paint.
Damage - on the pump, surprisingly, virtually none. The pistons are marked but I sware I don't think this had anything to do with the paint or the subsequent poor lurication - the pump is a lovely, simple thing to work on but is made to a very loose tolerance with lots of slop and movement in the parts - I suspect the marks on the pistons (which are incredibly flimsy and soft) are simply them moving around more than they would or not being perfectly true with the bores during its first run.
The piston rings are absolutely fine - I carefully removed them before putting them and the pistons/conrods in the dishwasher and they've come up lovely. I wouldn't re-use them on a car but on this pump it is perfectly acceptable (especially as a new set of four was about £40).
There is one mark in a bore, which again I suspect is an assembly defect and will hone right out on Saturday.
The valves and spring plates were cleaned up and found to be spot on. The pressure relief valve, reducing bushes and cast-iron pipework is all fine too - the little ball in the pressure valve moves freely.
The crank bearings are spot on too - no sign of wear or contamination.
I'll remove the red paint and any loose blue paint and lightly hone the bores, delicately polish out the marks on the piston skirts, re-use the piston rings and reassemble with lots of fresh oil, new gaskets and a new air filter. Will run it in for a few cycles and will change the oil.
Once reassembled the entire assembly will be painted in Hammered blue - checking the assembly sheet and the new ones in MM and its clear they assemble it bare before spraying it in primer and then hammered blue (the paint code is not recognised so I'll use whatever blue hammerite I have in the garage). They paint over everything - the flywheel, pulleys, wiring, pipework, the works. he only things painted black are the mesh guard and the end cap for the motor.
So, next post will be on the weekend when I should have the pump reassembled before turning attention to the motor… watch this space.
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
I should point out that this 'cheap' compressor is going to cost a fair bit now - total bill (assuming I don't need any more parts) will be around £290 by the time I'm done - I should have walked away when I saw it, but I was in a rush and though that the paint was only cosmetic - after all it ran perfectly.
By the time I found all the paint I didn't want to pass the pain onto someone else so elected to rebuild it. You can get a new one VAT-free from MM for £429 with a warranty.
Oh and I got it home in the back of a Fiesta (having drained the oil upon collection), no problems there until I came to unload it on my own. Not recommended - I had it strung from the garage rafters on a bit of polyprop rope and it was a bit nervy - but managed to get it out without scratching the bumper or killing myself so hey-ho.
By the time I found all the paint I didn't want to pass the pain onto someone else so elected to rebuild it. You can get a new one VAT-free from MM for £429 with a warranty.
Oh and I got it home in the back of a Fiesta (having drained the oil upon collection), no problems there until I came to unload it on my own. Not recommended - I had it strung from the garage rafters on a bit of polyprop rope and it was a bit nervy - but managed to get it out without scratching the bumper or killing myself so hey-ho.
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
Spent the afternoon cleaning and preparing the parts and started to reassemble. All going really well, was getting tired and hungry and the inevitable happened…
Just as I'm assembling the second piston I broke a piston ring. One of the oil scrapers. Was entirely my own fault, just stretched it slightly too far.
So thats the project on hold for another week while I order a replacement from Clarke.
Might start on the motor tomorrow. Have taken plenty of pics if anyone is interested in seeing the build, will upload later.
Just as I'm assembling the second piston I broke a piston ring. One of the oil scrapers. Was entirely my own fault, just stretched it slightly too far.
So thats the project on hold for another week while I order a replacement from Clarke.
Might start on the motor tomorrow. Have taken plenty of pics if anyone is interested in seeing the build, will upload later.
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
OK - so I cleaned all the parts up. Stripped off all the old gasket material and cleaned the mating faces to bare metal.
I lightly corrected any marks on the pistons with 2000 grit wet and dry plus WD40 and gave the skirts a very, very light polish (pics next week when I come to install them).
I spent a long time carefully taking the valve plate back to bare metal (it was a mess) and this, like all the other parts came up lovely.
Next… on to honing.
I used a Clarke 3-legged glaze buster and plenty of WD40 in a drill set on its lowest speed.
The bore with the mark on took 8 passes, the other bore took just 5. they both came up lovely, the mark has all but disappeared and the bores have a lovely cross hatch to them.
The loose studs were replaced in the crank-case and the inside was fully degreased. Of note is that once the oil was cleaned up, I found the bottom of the case has a white/grey coating which appears to have been painted on when the compressor was manufactured.
Here's the pump just as assembly was about to start. I cleaned and greased the bearings with the same stuff I use for wheel bearings as they had been dry (except for WD40) for some time (probably unnecessary).
Jus about to fit the end cap of one end of the crank - I use Gasgacinch gasket sealer, its an old fashioned gasket sealer that was popular back in the day in America. Was recommended some years ago by a Hot Rod fanatic and has been used on a fair few jobs over the years. Probably a number of modern alternatives but it works for me.
Front cover on - which supports the second crank bearing. I loaded a little oil gun with compressor oil and used it during assembly. Made sure to pre-oil the crank seal and to fill all the oil journals before fitting the cover.
Also removed the clear plastic oil-level window and cleaned the inside of it of all old oil before refitting. I also inspected and cleaned its little sealing rubber - fitted the drain plug too.
And then…. I started to assemble the (now) lovely, shiny pistons… on assembling the second piston I snapped a ring. Will order a new one from Clarke and will finish the pump next week. Really frustrating, one tiny little component stops assembly in its tracks.
I lightly corrected any marks on the pistons with 2000 grit wet and dry plus WD40 and gave the skirts a very, very light polish (pics next week when I come to install them).
I spent a long time carefully taking the valve plate back to bare metal (it was a mess) and this, like all the other parts came up lovely.
Next… on to honing.
I used a Clarke 3-legged glaze buster and plenty of WD40 in a drill set on its lowest speed.
The bore with the mark on took 8 passes, the other bore took just 5. they both came up lovely, the mark has all but disappeared and the bores have a lovely cross hatch to them.
The loose studs were replaced in the crank-case and the inside was fully degreased. Of note is that once the oil was cleaned up, I found the bottom of the case has a white/grey coating which appears to have been painted on when the compressor was manufactured.
Here's the pump just as assembly was about to start. I cleaned and greased the bearings with the same stuff I use for wheel bearings as they had been dry (except for WD40) for some time (probably unnecessary).
Jus about to fit the end cap of one end of the crank - I use Gasgacinch gasket sealer, its an old fashioned gasket sealer that was popular back in the day in America. Was recommended some years ago by a Hot Rod fanatic and has been used on a fair few jobs over the years. Probably a number of modern alternatives but it works for me.
Front cover on - which supports the second crank bearing. I loaded a little oil gun with compressor oil and used it during assembly. Made sure to pre-oil the crank seal and to fill all the oil journals before fitting the cover.
Also removed the clear plastic oil-level window and cleaned the inside of it of all old oil before refitting. I also inspected and cleaned its little sealing rubber - fitted the drain plug too.
And then…. I started to assemble the (now) lovely, shiny pistons… on assembling the second piston I snapped a ring. Will order a new one from Clarke and will finish the pump next week. Really frustrating, one tiny little component stops assembly in its tracks.
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
Oh and I spoke to Clarke yesterday re: reassembly. They told me that the only torque spec on the pump is for the head bolts and these should be done to 30NM and (like any engine/pump) should be retorqued after a few cycles.
I also asked about sealants etc and they said the only thing they use normally is thread locker on the big-end bolts.
I also asked about sealants etc and they said the only thing they use normally is thread locker on the big-end bolts.
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
Thanks guys - not join to do anything with it today. Have just ordered a 1/2 BSP whip to go from the compressor to a fixed air line from here, which I may even get round to making it up next weekend too.
@mm289. I'm going to struggle wiring up the motor as I have to start from scratch, I now have all the crimp connections, capacitors, OL switch and terminal block, etc. But I don't have an accurate wiring diagram. If you have the same motor as me (with two capacitors inside the box), some pictures of which wire goes where would be invaluable. I'll make up a wiring diagram and will publish it here as one for this motor isn't available from Clarke.
My knowledge of electrics isn't great, so I'll need to copy an existing setup.
@mm289. I'm going to struggle wiring up the motor as I have to start from scratch, I now have all the crimp connections, capacitors, OL switch and terminal block, etc. But I don't have an accurate wiring diagram. If you have the same motor as me (with two capacitors inside the box), some pictures of which wire goes where would be invaluable. I'll make up a wiring diagram and will publish it here as one for this motor isn't available from Clarke.
My knowledge of electrics isn't great, so I'll need to copy an existing setup.
Last edited:
gasket999
getting there...
- Messages
- 377
- Location
- Manchester, UK
Just a quick one folks: copper pipe for a fixed airline...
It's been covered ad nauseum on MW, so I know how to design the system and I know that the pipe is fine for the pressure, cooling and airflow (22mm ideally, but I already have 15mm).
I have enough pipe and conex/screwfix compression fittings leftover from the house plumbing to make up a simple system from the comp to a regulator inc a ball valve for water drain so the cost is zero. I've already ordered a short 1/2" pcl whip hose to connect the copper pipe to the compressor.
But...
Conex compression fittings are officially rated to 8bar for air, lots more for water. The compressor should max-out at 10bar. Lots of people seem to use them without issue. I'd be using one equal tee, one ball valve and two female 1/2bsp straight connectors. That's six compression joints in a 10bar-max system.
Would I be better buying straight, soldered joints, flux, solder and a blowtorch instead? I want it to be safe, but obviously don't want to spend money unnecessarily.
Thanks.
It's been covered ad nauseum on MW, so I know how to design the system and I know that the pipe is fine for the pressure, cooling and airflow (22mm ideally, but I already have 15mm).
I have enough pipe and conex/screwfix compression fittings leftover from the house plumbing to make up a simple system from the comp to a regulator inc a ball valve for water drain so the cost is zero. I've already ordered a short 1/2" pcl whip hose to connect the copper pipe to the compressor.
But...
Conex compression fittings are officially rated to 8bar for air, lots more for water. The compressor should max-out at 10bar. Lots of people seem to use them without issue. I'd be using one equal tee, one ball valve and two female 1/2bsp straight connectors. That's six compression joints in a 10bar-max system.
Would I be better buying straight, soldered joints, flux, solder and a blowtorch instead? I want it to be safe, but obviously don't want to spend money unnecessarily.
Thanks.
