Clarification Re 'wire stick out'

[Richardjjj]

Hi.
I am new to welding generally but its always something I have wanted to do and now have the time to learn although, unfortunately, do not know anyone that can help me with mig specifically although my neighbour was a pipeline welder in his earlier years and has been a great help with stick.
I did a lot of research before buying a welder, these forums and the tutorials both here and on Welding tips and tricks have been invaluable.
One point that is often raised is 'keep the stick-out short' so , rightly or wrongly have aimed for 6 - 8mm.
Now being over my initial concerns of damaging my new toy I have been experimenting with different settings and material thicknesses although only on the flat and a few butt joints.
Wire is 0.8 mm with a manufacturers stick-out recommendation of just over 9.5mm.
When laying beads on 2mm material I find any where between 4-12 mm will give a crisp even arc judged on what I can see and hear (don't quite see the bacon sizzling, maybe we use the wrong bacon)
When welding on 5mm plate using the welders setting for 4.2mm (its maximum) although laying a good bead (I think) there is a lot of splatter with 6-8mm which all but disappears with a 9 -12mm stick-out.
The question is does 'keep the stick- out short' mean just that or should it be 'keep the stick-out correct' ?
I realise my technique is probably poor but would like to practice correctly.
Any advice or guidance would be much appreciated.
Many thanks.
Richard

 

[shed or dead]

Really don't worry too much about this, as soon as you strike an arc your measuring disappears and there are so many other factorsthat take over like torch angle and travel speed.

If you haven't already done so, get an auto-darkening mask so you can really see whats going on at the weldpool.

When you trim the wire between welds, I give it a slight push back down the torch to add a bit of tension to begin. Probably makes no difference as it will move as I reposition the torch!

Just get comfortable and crack on.

 

[Richardjjj]

Thanks for the reply and advice.
Already have a good helmet thanks. Where my question was leading to was about the puddle, its a lot easier for me to see with the 9-12mm stick-out especially on the 2mm. I am reasonably confident of the dims as I set a timber block to rest my hand on and slide along to remind myself what I should be seeing. On 2mm plate at 6-8mm I cant see past the arc, assume the puddle is so narrow it doesn't seem to go beyond the arc cone. If the slightly shorter stick-out is the way to go I will stay with it but don't want to practice incorrectly.
Thanks again.
Richard

 

[shed or dead]

Are you using gas or gasless? If you're using shielding gas please bear in mind that this should sufficiently reach / cover the weldpool.

Distance of tip / shroud from weldpool is perhaps a more useful way of thinking about wire stick out. The wire could start off halfway down the feed when you pull the trigger, but will always touch the workpiece when it strikes an arc. You wouldn't however stand halfway across the room from the workpiece you are trying to weld.

Don't get hung up on this concern, it is a non issue, except perhaps for welding robots.

 

[chunkolini]

I stopped trimming my wire years ago.I just keep an offcut of steel on the workbench and strike the end off on that.
After about six months I end up with a lovely sculpture, everybody who comes in picks them up and fondles them.
With practice you can leave a small blob on the end of the wire which glows and makes a great visual reference for tight fiddly work.
I will try and get photos tomorrow.

 

[Richard.]

Stick out plays a good role with current. Which in plays a role in penetration.
So I think it's important to get it right. I try to keep it the same for all settings on a specific wire size in a specific transfer.
For example I would use 6-8mm stick out with .8 wire for all conditions and currents in dip transfer. Then 10-12mm if I go into spray.

 

[Richardjjj]

Thanks all for the replies.
Currently my area of focus is the very small area around the puddle and, for me, the relationship to the puddle of the shroud is a reference in the same area, I can see the view change if the gun angle alters or the gap between shroud and work varies.
What I cannot do however is see where I am going when welding on the flat so getting a straight bead over anything more than 50mm is very difficult. Don't have the same problem with horizontal, I assume that the heat and fumes clear quickly up leaving the line of travel clearer to see.
I had hoped, as its slightly easier to see where I'm going with the longer stickout, that I had misunderstood 'keep the sickout short'.
I'm trying to be as technically accurate as I can be with my practice as I know from experience that 'unlearning' a bad habit or technique is a lot harder than starting correctly.