Circular saws - have you been trained...

[cheb]

Looking at the pic, I’d imagine when using the saw you can’t really actually see the blade, without hunkering down a bit to see past the vacuum guard thing.

View attachment 456297

All the more reason not to poke your fingers into it.

I've no problem with this chap getting compo but it should come with conditions. He's too stupid to be let out by himself so has to be accompanied at all times, at his cost, by a grown up. And he has to check with said grown up before he does anything at all, with the possible exception of breathing in and out.

 

[Mark 5]

All

All the more reason not to poke your fingers into it.

I've no problem with this chap getting compo but it should come with conditions. He's too stupid to be let out by himself so has to be accompanied at all times, at his cost, by a grown up. And he has to check with said grown up before he does anything at all, with the possible exception of breathing in and out.

No exceptions.

 

[Barking Mat]

I've been living in France for over twenty years, where a Florist is a three year course, as is most things.

Couple of years ago, I went on a two day electricity course, it was interesting, in how to kill yourself with bells on.

After two days I was qualified, that if I opened an electrical cabinet, and saw wires, I could close it and seek professional help.

Awesome.

 

[Parm]

In the past I’ve investigated accident involving wood working machinery, not everyone has the same awareness as us lot, training is definitely required

I’ve seen how badly it can go wrong

 

[optima21]

I once had a bad cut from a bench saw, it was a paper cut from reading the instructions , never had a problem when using the bench saw

 

[Stupoty]

"According to the HSE, while pushing wood through the saw, Mr Soday felt a pain in his right index finger and immediately turned off the machine.

When he looked down, he saw his finger lying on the bench."

 

[Kram]

Reminds me of when I was in at primary school, year 6 or 7. A boy left class to go to toilets, minute later everyone heard him scream, it was loud! What he had done was, stuck his hand up into the hand drier outlet and chopped the tip of his index finger off, on the fan blade. I'm not sure HSE existed back then, certainly nothing happened about it - I remember (as a boy myself) everyone considered it stupidity (teachers included).

Thinking about it now as an adult, perhaps the fan should have had better guarding to prevent small fingers getting in there.


Surely a D&T teacher has had to aquire some relevant training of machines to become a teacher of that subject?!?
Further a teacher should be considered competent to find out the relevant info, to read the instruction booklet or do their own research to become competent, or what good are they as a teacher?!

 

[Ali]

Reminds me of when I was in at primary school, year 6 or 7. A boy left class to go to toilets, minute later everyone heard him scream, it was loud! What he had done was, stuck his hand up into the hand drier outlet and chopped the tip of his index finger off, on the fan blade. I'm not sure HSE existed back then, certainly nothing happened about it - I remember (as a boy myself) everyone considered it stupidity (teachers included).

Thinking about it now as an adult, perhaps the fan should have had better guarding to prevent small fingers getting in there.


Surely a D&T teacher has had to aquire some relevant training of machines to become a teacher of that subject?!?
Further a teacher should be considered competent to find out the relevant info, to read the instruction booklet or do their own research to become competent, or what good are they as a teacher?!

The motors for a certain brand of dust / fume extractor used in most school D&T departments now have a guard fitted over the impeller after a technician stuck his arm into one, even after removing screws and panels to gain access.

 

[daleyd]

I think it’s fair enough to expect some level of training for that type of saw? Especially in a school environment…

It kind of sounds self explanatory but there’s plenty of things that could catch you out IF you did them wrong.

I speak as someone who was using a diesel powered site saw ripping down 8 x 4 sheets of 3/4 ply on at 17 - the safety instruction from my dad was to “keep your fingers away from the sharp bits” - and starting it was probably more dangerous than cutting with it.

 

[Pete.]

When I cut 3 of my fingers with a battery powered circular saw I felt no pain at all at the time.

Afterwards however, I felt it all.

 

[Melvyn Best]

One thing that surprised me about the original article was a school having a woodwork class, I thought stuff like that had been removed from schools years ago?

 

[Melvyn Best]

When I cut 3 of my fingers with a battery powered circular saw I felt no pain at all at the time.

Afterwards however, I felt it all.

An old friend of my grandmother’s had lost his little and third finger on his right hand , he was waiting to pull out of a junction onto a busy road when a copper stopped and let him out, he stuck he hand up to say thank you as he pulled off. A few yard down the road the copper pulled him accusing him of making a rude gesture at him . Got no idea how he lost his fingers because every time people asked he came out with a different tall story

 

[dobbslc]

When I cut 3 of my fingers with a battery powered circular saw I felt no pain at all at the time.

Afterwards however, I felt it all.

I've got a 12v Bosch circular saw and it's a vicious little bastard!
It will jump out of the work in the blink of an eye and it's really easy to start the thing with your other hand in the wrong place. I'm a lefty so these things can be dodgy as they are really designed for right handed people but this thing needs respect and a couple of seconds thought before pulling the trigger.
The big mains powered circular saw is easier to use as it has some weight in it and doesn't jump about as easily.

 

[8ob]

The real danger in a workshop is complacency & tiredness.
I've trained hundreds of kids in the correct use of machines through C&G courses and most of them have been excellent. However put them in a workshop with time pressures, fatigue, complacency or worse a bully for a boss and corners get cut leading to fingers getting cut.

It's not easy as a young person to contradict or question the more experienced workers. I look back at the stuff I did as a novice steeplejack 35 odd yrs ago - mainly to do with exposure to toxic chemicals without proper respirators

As most one fingered sawmill owners will confirm, yes there are a lot of them .

Bob

 

[Dev]

I think it’s fair enough to expect some level of training for that type of saw? Especially in a school environment…

It kind of sounds self explanatory but there’s plenty of things that could catch you out IF you did them wrong.

I speak as someone who was using a diesel powered site saw ripping down 8 x 4 sheets of 3/4 ply on at 17 - the safety instruction from my dad was to “keep your fingers away from the sharp bits” - and starting it was probably more dangerous than cutting with it.

I agree, safe systems of work should be taught and enforced - like always use a push stick, don’t stand in line with the work in case it kicks back.

 

[Keith 66]

I worked in the education system for 17 years, As a D&T Technician in a 6th form college then the last 5 years in a secondary school.
Educational establishments inc schools are usually highly risk averse. Local education authorities used to have overall responsibility for H&S in schools but the rise of the academy system led to this no longer being so.
BS 4163 is the default H&S document for School workshops & simply states H&S training must be provided but not by who.
In practice this means the only H&S training available to D&T teachers & technicians is that provided by DATA (the Design & Technology Association)
DATA have a fair number of consultants or registered D&T trainers who visit schools & train staff.
A Technician or Teacher starts with a D&T Core H&S course usually two days, then more course modules to cover other machines & processes usually another 2 days. So once you have the core you get Hand tols, Sanding/linishing machines, power hacksaws/metal cutting bandsaws, Heat processes, Polishing buffing machines, plastics moulding processes, power fet saws, portable power tools (drills & sanders only)
Then extension level modules on Wood sawing machines, Bandsaws, Centre lathe, Wood turning lathe, Milling machines, Portable power tools (grinders & such). There are more still. Every machine & tool you use has to be ticked off.

When you start the job the school has to get this done & usually put as many D&T staff through as they can. The problem is as you can imagine time, All that lot done in two days including practical demo & have a go on everything. A Technicians job is poorly paid & will often attract older guys like myself winding down to retirement. Some like myself will have extensive experience of machine tools etc already some wont.
Younger guys & women coming into the job are often totally green & will have never operated any machines in their lives.
Quite often they are scared of the machines & so they should be.
So they do a tick box list while they listen to the instructor & his powerpoint, have a little go & onto the next one, tick the box & again & again.
The tickets last for 5 years then you have to do a refresher course.

None of this is skills training but once the course is done the Techie has a piece of paper that says he/she is qualified to drive this that or the other.
Monday morning they have teachers saying I need 200 bits of plywood X size & 400 bits of wood this long, Oh & i need it next lesson! & so it goes.
When i left my last school job the next techician was a young woman, she lasted two days before walking out in tears. The next guy aged 22 lasted a few months before chopping the top of his finger off on the circular saw, he then left.

Im surprised it doesnt happen more often!

 

[dieselsamurai]

he should have been using one of these.....

brave man!!

slow mo at about 6min

 

[mark roberts]

The employer has to show that the employee has received adequate training and it is recorded. Alot of people get their training from american videos which show dangerous methods.
We have some of the best safety standards in the world and this accident should not have happened. If that is the picture of the actual machine then it is illegal anyway. Stupid americanised fence which should not be used on timber.
The company who make the 'sawstop' tried to make their product a legal requirement in america. Luckily common sense prevailed.

 

[Morris]

As the son of a man who lost his left eye in a (large) circular saw accident I totally agree that proper training should be given.

 

[Mart63]

I'm a Technician in a 6th form College. We have training every 5 years. Nobody gets to use the circular saw if they haven't got an in date certificate.