Cheap generator repair

[Ttothe4]

Hi all,
Longshot, but would anyone know where I could source a couple of parts for a cheap Chinese petrol generator.
I need the windings and casing for the windings.
It has verke name on it but I've seen these for sale with all sorts of names on them.
It's brand new, engine hadn't ran 3 hrs and someone plugged in a kettle, which broke the mountings and fried the internals. I'll try and upload pics.
Not sure if this is the right section.

 

[angellonewolf]

not that i know where to get them but price for parts wont be cheap and would prob cost more than a 2nd hand one

 

[Ttothe4]

Yes definitely, although I am keeping a look out for a 2nd hand one

 

[Robotstar5]

You could try generator guru

 

[Tom O]

Just by plugging in the kettle? WTF!

 

[zzr1200]

An 8500 watt generator case mounting gets broken by plugging in and switching on a 3000 watt kettle....

How and Why?

 

[ahebron]

Have you tried the online chinese selling sites?

 

[bourbon]

It says 8500w on the outside, Doesn't mean it's 8500w on the inside. Either way, it should have popped a fuse rather than frying the internals.

 

[frank horton]

I have the very same genny in for a look over....different name tho....
the client says it won't power a 2000w angle grinder out of any of the 240v plugs

 

[GRW]

An 8500 watt generator case mounting gets broken by plugging in and switching on a 3000 watt kettle....

How and Why?

Because of "Creative Marketing". There's a sticker on the motor pull cord casing stating the motor is (a probably optimistic) 2800w (3.75Hp)..... so alleging for the mechanical losses to produce an electrical output the genny is capable of..... naff all useful.

You canna beat the laws of physics Captain!

Note that a Honda GX160 (at 3600rpm, not the 3000rpm needed for 50Hz UK Frequency).... is a 5.5Hp Engine - and typical peak rating for a GX160 engined set - is 2.4kva/2.2kw.

I respectfully submit that the OP's "generator" - is actually a Boat Anchor missing a chain

 

[Shedendman]

is actually a Boat Anchor missing a chain

i like that one

 

[E T]

An 8500 watt generator case mounting gets broken by plugging in and switching on a 3000 watt kettle....

How and Why?

It does say 1000W max under each outlet. Its a 3 phase generator, plugging in a 3000W load on one phase will give so much phase imbalance the poor thing will shake itself to death.

 

[Migmac]

I have a similar one sitting in my shed, power out put was nothing near what was stated. It’s broken too, AVR is shot. Hadn’t done very much before that went pop. I’ll strip it down and keep the Honda clone, it runs well.

 

[GRW]

Cheap Chinesium alternators are notoriously fragile to start with.

As E.T pointed out (I didn't look closely enough to spot it being a 3ph ) then even ignoring the gross exaggeration of the 8500 on the side & taking it at face value..... plugging a 3000w kettle in is putting 125% load on 1 phase, and 125% phase imbalance. Oops!
Add in the stated 1000w max, and its a 300% overload on the phase. Massive oops!

These cheap generic sets are full of obvious contradictions.

1. The engine would need to be a 2-cyl & around 20Hp to make the power to deliver 8500w (like say a Honda GX610/GX620 to make 10kva, 8kw peak).... & its not even one of the bigger 1-cyl - so the 8500 is nonsense.

2. Why a limit if 1000w per socket - if the set is rated as capable of over 2.5kw/ph? (Because of course, it's not!).

You see loads of these things with big numbers on the side, implying impressive outputs - but nowhere near the engine or alternator power to deliver no Korean than at best 1/3 of that number.

Being cheap & with nonsense numbers, these boat anchors are squarely aimed at people who know nothing about generators, so they cynically exploit the unwary.

 

[E T]

The OP didn't state it was a 3000W kettle though. Just 'a kettle'. But apparently it was way too much for that generator.

 

[zzr1200]

1......Note that a Honda GX160 (at 3600rpm, not the 3000rpm needed for 50Hz UK Frequency).... is a 5.5Hp Engine - and typical peak rating for a GX160 engined set - is 2.4kva/2.2kw.

2.....I respectfully submit that the OP's "generator" - is actually a Boat Anchor missing a chain

1..... That's probably because it's set up for 60Hz which is also a frequency, that is used in other countries around the world and doesn't make that much difference and plus most electrical items are dual frequency anyway.

2..... Can't really argue with that, due to possible repair costs....

An 8500 watt generator case mounting gets broken by plugging in and switching on a 3000 watt kettle....

How and Why?

I also understand the the "8500W badge may not be the optimistic output maximum", but how does plugging in a kettle break a casing mounting point????......

 

[GRW]

The OP didn't state it was a 3000W kettle though. Just 'a kettle'. But apparently it was way too much for that generator.

True, bit even the older common kettle rating is 2200w

 

[GRW]

1..... That's probably because it's set up for 60Hz which is also a frequency, that is used in other countries around the world and doesn't make that much difference and most electrical items are dual frequency anyway.

2..... Can't really argue with that, due to possible repair costs....


I also understand the the "8500W badge may not be the output maximum", but how does plugging in a kettle break a casing mounting pint????

1. At 60hz the engine is running 600rpm faster, so making more hp, which equals higher alternator output capability. Note these small engines are typically rated for peak output at 3600rpm which equates to 60Hz. At 50Hz, less bhp, lower output.

2. The casing mount break, probably due to two factors.... a) the huge lurch as the big phase overload occurs as the kettle switches on, and b) the cheapest of cheap, low grade material Chinesium build quality.

I've seen lots of these different badged sets - and while you see the odd "Wednesday" one that defies the odds & keeps going, the unfortunate reality is that they are dismal tat - ok if you want to prop the workshop door open with it, but lottery odds as a functional genset.

 

[zzr1200]

So 'Tothe4' has a generator that appears to be a 3000w 3 phase generator that is also tapped off into 3 x 1000 (220 volt) circuits.

ET... I cant read whats under the 220v sockets, picture angle isn't clear enough.......but 1000w per socket makes sense.

1. At 60hz the engine is running 600rpm faster, so making more hp, which equals higher alternator output capability. Note these small engines are typically rated for peak output at 3600rpm which equates to 60Hz. At 50Hz, less bhp, lower output.

2. The casing mount break, probably due to two factors.... a) the huge lurch as the big phase overload occurs as the kettle switches on, and b) the cheapest of cheap, low grade material Chinesium build quality.

I've seen lots of these different badged sets - and while you see the odd "Wednesday" one that defies the odds & keeps going, the unfortunate reality is that they are dismal tat - ok if you want to prop the workshop door open with it, but lottery odds as a functional genset.

1...... Yep agree, but also the engine probably has to run at 3600rpm off load to allow for the drop in revs when on load.

2...... Either is possible.

Which begs the question does in a country that uses a 60 Hz system, 'Do the generators sold in that country comply to their electrical standards?' being as soon as they are on load it's not outputting 60Hz?

I used to have to set up some of our JLG access platforms, with oem optional SkyWelder packages with a hydraulic powered generator to run a Miller 280 amp welder in the basket, the OEM standard 60Hz frequency/rpm of the alternator is/was controlled by the hydraulic flow rate to the alternator, this can be a balancing act at times to maintain the required output.

Even NiftyLift offer the use/fitment of hydraulic gennys, now they can be real fun...... especially when some informed steel workers have worked out they can have variable powered makita electric nut runners.......

 

[GRW]

So 'Tothe4' has a generator that appears to be a 3000w 3 phase generator that is also tapped off into 3 x 1000 (220 volt) circuits.

ET... I cant read whats under the 220v sockets, picture angle isn't clear enough.......but 1000w per socket makes sense.


1...... Yep agree, but also the engine probably has to run at 3600rpm off load to allow for the drop in revs when on load.

2...... Either is possible.

Which begs the question does in a country that uses a 60 Hz system, 'Do the generators sold in that country comply to their electrical standards?' being as soon as they are on load it's not outputting 60Hz?

I used to have to set up some of our JLG access platforms, with oem optional SkyWelder packages with a hydraulic powered generator to run a Miller 280 amp welder in the basket, the OEM standard 60Hz frequency/rpm of the alternator is/was controlled by hydraulic flow rate, this can be a balancing act at times to maintain the required output. Even NiftyLift offer the usefitment of hydraulic gennys.

As these have mechanical governors you do need to build in some droop under full load.
Typically you'd set the off-load frequency to not more than 53Hz for a 50Hz output.
(This is particularly important on the capacitive control alternators, as the capacitor is setto output correct voltage at around 50hz. Crank them up on revs to make more power (as some are wont to attempt) & the voltage sky-rockets north of 300v and stuff goes pop).

A healthy engine off load at 53hz should not dip below 49.5hz or so at max rated load (when the max ratedload is reaistic & not some fantasy creation that is).