changed suppliers got a problem

[quazex]

hey all

we have had boc argoshield heavy to use with horizontal tig water cooled welders not really had a problem

we changed over to airproducts and there equiv of argoshield heavy which is called astec75-x47s but also has the label didcot helium 10005111372

now im sure argoshield heavy doesnt contain helium

problem i have is that the weld now has a line down the centre and when we stretch one end it splits straight down this line, the weld has to be kept as flat as possible to enable a good visual painted finish, we have had the metal analyised and is certified to be within tollerances for what we require everything else is the same i have 3 of these machines and every single one is showing the same problem

any help would be most appreciated.

paul

 

[pedrobedro]

Argoshield heavy is mig gas for heavy plate, how did your tungstens cope with it ?

 

[quazex]

we grind 20 3.2mm gold tungstens per machine per day and generally they last a day, i have kept reading that heavy is for 10mm plate, we weld 0.6 to 1.2mm reduced carbon steel with it.

heres a couple of photos

 

[Country Joe]

Argoshield heavy is mig gas for heavy plate, how did your tungstens cope with it ?

Like he said. Argoshield heavy is just for MIG.
You'd be much better off with pure argon. (i.e. No mix)
CJ

 

[pedrobedro]

You weld 0.6 to 1.2 with 3.2mm tungstens with Argoshield heavy ? I can't understand how you came to this solution or how it works. Are you using filler wire or are the welds autogenous ? I'm just going out now to throw all my books away and make it up as I go along Can you delete all the tutorials and other stuff on the Miller site explaining how things should be done as they obviously have it all wrong.

 

[Country Joe]

If you'd been using MIG, then argoshield light would have been the one to use. Still no good for TIG, though.
Can't see how any of this could have worked at all, really.
CJ

 

[quazex]

we are using filler wire as well, now i know this proccess has been going on this way for 30 odd years.just spoke with a guy whos been here yonks he says he used to use heliweld gas though unsure of which one then we moved to argoshield heavy then to the airproducts one, now could the change been wrong when we went from heliweld to aroshield.

like i say what ive read on the furoms all point to us not using the correct gas at all never mind if its a change of suppliers

just uploading a pic of the weld in the machine and of a tip used all this morning so 3 or 4 hours

 

[quazex]

If you'd been using MIG, then argoshield light would have been the one to use. Still no good for TIG, though.
Can't see how any of this could have worked at all, really.
CJ

we use light for our mig welding process, we use pure argon on our hand held tig welders but on the bode seam welders we use heavy or equiv. and thats how its been since i started here so its an eye opener to relise the gas is most probably the completly wrong one to be using in the first place

 

[Country Joe]

I think there are TIG gases that have a certain amount of helium, but this is more common in the US, as far as I know.

I feel quite confident that a change to PureShield argon (BOC's name for it), or the Air Products equivalent would sort out most, if not all your problems in one go.

Also a 3.2mm tungsten seems much too big, and with a change to the right gas, you'd get away with using much smaller ones. I would think that the CO2 would be having a bad effect on the tungstens, making them last a much shorter time than you'd normally expect.
I truly believe you must get through far more tungstens than necessary, due to the wrong gas being used.

Not too many people will be able to compare the welds you posted, as they probably wont have tried TIG with argoshield, but pure argon will definitely be a whole lot better.
All the Best,
CJ

 

[the snooper]

below is a caption from the bode website

The BODE HSW range of positioners will produce uniformly strong welds and reduce welding costs, using TIG (argon arc) with and without filler wire

 

[backpurge]

You're getting mixed up between Argoshield and Alushield, I think you will find you were using Alushield Heavy which contains 75% Helium in argon which is equivalent to Astec 75.

Argon/Helium will give you far better results than straight Argon on that job despite what the previous posts say

If you are having problems ring up Air Products local Technical Support guy and he should be able to sort you out

 

[quazex]

You're getting mixed up between Argoshield and Alushield, I think you will find you were using Alushield Heavy which contains 75% Helium in argon which is equivalent to Astec 75.

Argon/Helium will give you far better results than straight Argon on that job despite what the previous posts say

If you are having problems ring up Air Products local Technical Support guy and he should be able to sort you out

duh sounds about right, so sorry

so not the gas any other ideas why it may be breaking as it does lol

 

[rtbcomp]

Could the cylinder have been filled with the wrong gas?

 

[backpurge]

It's a parameter problem but bearing in mind I'm the local welding engineer for BOC my boss would have me by the short and curlies if I said any more

As I mentioned above, give Air Products a bell they should be able to get someone to call in and sort you out

 

[quazex]

cheers to you all i think a call to airproducts should be my imediate decision, i will inform of the result

thankyou all very much for your help even though i misinformed you of the gas i was using and cheers to backpurge for spotting it saved alot of messing for me.

 

[Country Joe]

No worries, quazex.

Have to admit I'd not come across "Alushield", only ever used Pureshield, for argon.

"Argon/Helium will give you far better results than straight Argon on that job despite what the previous posts say"

Wasn't trying to say it's not necessary, just that I'd not come across it before. Could be I've been missing out on something good? But straight argon has always seemed to work fine for me.

All the Best,
CJ

 

[backpurge]

CJ
Argon is a great all round "jobbing" gas for TIG, you can weld virtually any material to a high standard with it but for specific materials, mixes like Ar/He, Ar/H2, Ar/N2 etc even some 3component mixes will give you lot better results with regard deposition rates and weld quality

 

[Robotstar5]

Have to admit I'd not come across "Alushield", only ever used Pureshield, for argon.

We used to have a bottle of "stainshield" in our gas cage, I think that was mostly Argon though.

 

[backpurge]

It can get confusing, most of the main UK gas suppliers will have a range of between 20 and 25 different shielding gases which is bad enough but I used to work for Linde and they literally had dozens,,,,,,nightmare

 

[Country Joe]

My deposition rates are mostly limited by my co-ordination - I'm all too aware of my limitations!

Not the best at choosing things, either - I'd "stall" if I had to chose from too many!
All the Best,
CJ