cellullose on top of modern auto paint finish

[jmp49]

Trying to tidy up my daughters 2007 Peugeot 207 car on her budget, and the lacquer had peeled really bad in a few places, tailgate, bonnet and part of the roof rear quarter. It looked like a skin condition and it was really thick just coming off in chunks. The car is really tidy looking apart from this issue after lots of other work.

I used to do some detailing as part of a job decades ago and thought I could sand in the lacquer edges and patch it starting on the tailgate as a test area, but I've rubbed through the base coat to the white primer as it seemed really thin and looks like people have been cutting the bare paint back for years to hide the problem, so now I have to paint the tailgate at least. The roof on the rear quarter looks dull and uneven like someone already tried to rattle can fix it too so I suspect already that its beyond some compound polishing and the same will happen there.
I've got the tailgate prepped and wet sanded and masked up now ready but I'm having doubts, its been a long time since I did any paintwork proper and things and materials have changed...

I have 2l of vauxhall flame red and some polar white in cellulose to tint it if needed on the shelf and its close to the original colour of Rouge Aden, and suitable celly thinners and some viscosity cups etc. But this car will have been 2k or water based from the factory. Ive had horrible reactions in the past and had to cure it with a layer of barcoat isolator, but I want to patch and blend in the repairs at very least to the rear quarter.
Should I try to match and blend this in, or get some colourmatched 2k and spray it. I have a air fed mask setup and can get some paper overalls etc, but I've never sprayed 2k although It has to be 20 years since I sprayed anything as big as a car.
The idea isnt flawless paint, but tidy and not looking botched and with a skin condition. I dont mind paying for a litre of 2k and hardener just dont want to make things worse from lack of experience with it. I'm aware of the dangers of isocynate paint.
Bit out of my comfort zone here, but she has a tiny budget and I'm just trying to make it the best I can for the money.

 

[ajlelectronics]

I've rubbed through the base coat to the white primer as it seemed really thin

You can get a colour matched basecoat aerosol made up in solvent basecoat. I see no reason why you would get a reaction, but epoxy primer would be the answer if you are that concerned. You can also get a 2K lacquer off the shelf, so if you have the right PPE, that is how I would do it. Ideally lacquer the whole panel, but you might get away with some blending spray with it if you are really lucky, otherwise there will be a stepped edge to the repair (overspray) which will not polish out.

 

[steveo3002]

id get a matched rattle can , can get them from £12 up , warm the panel with a heatgun /hair dryer and dust it on over the edges , heavy coats are what cause problems

rattle can clear as you like

 

[norsa]

I would strongly recommend a dust of primer before any colour/top coat. Where the clear coat has been feathered into the base coat and base into the primer, these edges will pickle which is the reaction you have seen before. Primer will seal the edges. Dust a coat on and if you see any pickling, you can flat it back and re dust till the reaction stops.
Nick

 

[charlysays]

I found the only way to deal with feathered lacquer edges was with epoxy primer tbh. Any time I tried to topcoat over them even with plenty of 1k primer they showed up in the top coat.

 

[norsa]

Indeed. 1k product of any sort, is high in solvent content and will therefore pickle. Epoxy is a 2k and as such has little to no solvent so will hold out after the second application

 

[jmp49]

I'm going to get a litre of 2k in rouge aden and some 2k lacquer rather than mess round trying to fight a reaction and have problems spraying in a repair patch to the rear quarter roof pillar, I have a airfed mask & a second airless compressor to run it because I bought it a while back for a different project that's still in a can on the shelf, so just overalls and some gloves to purchase and lock the cats in the house on spray day. I think the car's been resprayed relatively recently anyway because the finish on the rear quarters is bright but a bit orange peely for my liking so fade should be less of a issue.

Does it still require priming under this? its only rubbed through exposing the existing primer base, not through it.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Does it still require priming under this? its only rubbed through exposing the existing primer base, not through it.

As Nick explained, where the damage has been feathered is where it may pickle if it is going to. Either follow Nick's advice of dust coats using basecoat and see how it goes, or epoxy prime the area first as an isolator, then refinish as normal.
You can get waterbased basecoat too, which may be a more expensive solution.

There is no point using 2K solid colour and lacquering it, just use Nick's advice.

 

[jmp49]

Ok, I'll look at waterbased basecoat if its less likely to solvent react, and the process for that is 2k lacquering afterwards.
I haven't ordered anything yet because I'm laid out with bloody covid. Day5 and I hope its done its worst...

 

[norsa]

Even i dont use waterbased colour. Good luck with that.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Even i dont use waterbased colour. Good luck with that.

It is simple enough Nick. Normal prep, dilute as required with their expensive branded distilled water and apply as normal. It dries by airflow rather than heat, so it needs sufficient time to dry before overcoating. I found that about 45 minutes worked well.

 

[norsa]

The day I'm forced to use it is the day I finally lock my guns away.

 

[ajlelectronics]

The day I'm forced to use it is the day I finally lock my guns away.

It is a useful backup and honestly nothing to be worried about. I wouldn't be my first choice either and is more expensive for reasons I cannot fathom.

 

[qwakers]

and if you try to lacquer over it too soon it 'cracks' and looks awful.

other than that, w/base is easy enough to use. just so bleeding expensive and takes so long to cure, even with forced airflow over it.

 

[MG David]

I used water based base coat on a Jaguar XJR I owned. It came out very well and I am a lot less skilled than you Norsa. When I put the car in the garage I didn't have enough space to work so I sprayed it on the drive. Later sold the car to a friend who still has it 6 years later. Cleared it with Upol 1k clear as it was on the drive.

 

[norsa]

I'm sure I could make it work but I'm too far into retirement to learn a new product mate. Nick

 

[jmp49]

So I'm going to update here, I ordered what I thought was water based base with 2k clear as a paint system, and its arrived, and I think its 1k acrylic pre-thinned with 2k lacquer + hardener.
The basecoat reacted like a sod where I tried to feather it in, so I did the panel with epoxy primer dust coat, then the base reacted with the primer itself so I had to rub it back and I ended up flatting the hatch completely back to the original primer.
The roof and rear pillar, I thought I'd try to feather in the lacquer and just 2k lacquer it, but same story, couldn't feather the edges in, flaking off bad still. The last straw was I masked up a area larger than the pillar repair to give me space to feather in the repair and when I pulled the masking tape off, it just removed a strip of lacquer, so I took a valeting razor, and the whole roof/pillar area just came off with the razor without hardly any effort, just a couple of places it was actually adhered and took some pressure. So now, I'm wet sanding down with 1200 grit to key the paint, then a dust with basecoat and then 2k it. Not sure what would have caused it, but its the first time I've ever been able to remove lacquer without damaging paint underneath with a razor with almost no pressure.
A monster 12M long inflatable paint booth came up s/h for less money than the new little ones cost & local to me , minus its sandbags but we have some old steel wheels, and various lumps to anchor it to so no biggie, and it has a scag in the fabric pillar by the door but my mrs is handy with sewing oxford fabric and it stays up anyway without repairs. Its so big the jcb 3c3 can fit in it to repaint that in future, and what isnt obvious from the pic is there's a paint prep area separate to the booth itself at the back accessed through a internal door. No mug for scale, but will a labrador do?




So tomorrow is some more basecoat on some bits I wasn't happy with, then 2k. Hopefully at a reasonable temperature without any sudden power cuts causing the booth to deflate onto wet paint...
S'all good fun, and I've had the 2k yellow to repaint the jcb for nigh on 8 years now, now I have somewhere to paint it in. Provided we dont have crap weather, or I'll be inflating it inside the barn squashed in.

 

[jo1010]

Is the booth heated? Too crazy cold and humid to paint without heat... Even rocket won't help...

 

[jmp49]

Good point, Its zero c here tonight, but its due 18c on sunday (still not hot enough I know) so I'll probably spend sat prepping still & tonight I rigged up a 8kw chinese diesel heater external to the booth and sorted it so its blown clean output can feed in the booth via the ventilation fan connection via some double insulated ducting, but I also have a 3Kw electric blow heater, and it can raise the temperature a few degrees on its own. I'll put a battery co2 warning meter in because I'm paranoid like that.
I had a issue with amp load per phase (my 3 phase supply is current limited, and throws out the main breaker to the property if I take more than 30A per phase), so tonight I rejigged some phases round on the consumer unit feeding the barn workshop for better phase balance with everything running and fingers crossed its all well within safe margins now. Because if the breaker throws out mid spray, the booth will deflate onto wet paint!
I was wondering about putting up my pit gazebo inside it so that if it does deflate it will keep the material off the fresh paint...

For fire risk reasons, I'll remove the 3kw blow heater and take it out the booth before spraying, as its basically just a big cooker style glowing hot coil with a fan in it, & turn off the diesel heater. Both staying off until the extractor fan has cleared it out for the same reasons.. And I know these chinese booths are not fireproof, the material itself is flammable.