CE Marking / BS EN 1090

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So what you can say is unless you have the above Quals', you are going to struggle to find work. And if in work who pays for the costs? Has there been any talk of government assistance with costs for either Employer/employee?

Would these pass?

Looks like they got some of it, in places

 

[Welderpaul]

You identifying your incoming section yet @Hitch ?
Section type, cast/heat number, job number and a spray mark for the grade...Orange for 355, yellow for 275 and blue for 235. Material certs cross refernced to section along with supplier details etc, then filed. I've filled a lever arch file in 3 weeks...have to keep them for 7 years.
Supposed to do every single length as soon as it comes in. I'm not unstacking 40-odd lengths of UC all locked into each other to mark em up Just mark up what's left from a job.

Best buy another box of paint markers.

 

[AndyStobbs]

Wonder how long it will take before the Chinese cotton on to pre made assemblies and CE mark them too. Leaving just the erection to UK firms. Really feel it for you guys burdened with this lot, granted you think it will kill off a few cowboys (the competition); I only hope you're right.

 

[backpurge]

Paul, any chance you could let me have the contact details for your RWC, had a couple of firms asking if I know of anyone

 

[Welderpaul]

Paul, any chance you could let me have the contact details for your RWC, had a couple of firms asking if I know of anyone

Yeah, of course, i'll email it to you tomorrow. I never sent you that other thing we talked about either - i will dig it out.
You must have been speaking to Steve at Pennine? He rang me today asking for the same and picking my brains a bit.

 

[Hitch]

Not that severe, O/N on them all yes, then traceable back through paperwork from that. Section size is obvious.
Keeping o/cs marked is simple, mark each length on the far end as it will go into the saw, then generally, any offcuts will have the marks on.

Is that level of things a difference between Ex2 and Ex3?

 

[backpurge]

It came up in conversation, I think he has had a few enquiries as well, told him you were the West Yorkshire 1090 guru.

 

[Welderpaul]

Is that level of things a difference between Ex2 and Ex3?

Possibly.
It's not bad if the gear comes in, gets used and any small offcuts get scrapped.
Stuff that is spare is originally assigned with the order number it was ordered against, then once its spare, (Say you only need to cut 2m off a 6m UC) it has to get transfered from a job number to stock. Then when it gets used it gets transfered from stock to the new job number.
I can see us scrapping a lot more.

 

[Robotstar5]

Material certs cross refernced to section along with supplier details etc, then filed. I've filled a lever arch file in 3 weeks...have to keep them for 7 years.

Can you scan them into a PC instead? maybe upload backup copies to a decent "cloud" provider too, otherwise at this rate your going to have to hire a warehouse just for archiving paperwork!

 

[Shox Dr]

...have to keep them for 7 years.

What a strange length of time.... Do buildings stop falling down after 7 yrs? And all this traceability sounds OTT, it's not far off what you need to supply the aircraft industry. Or is there soooooo much crap steel coming out of ROC it's needed?

I've a loft with what must be over 150 leverarch files full to bursting with invoices and CC receipts, I had to keep for xx yrs I forget how many, they can stay up there, it's good insulation. And that not to mention the 40yrs you have to keep Public Liability but that's only one sheet of paper per year, you have to keep an eye on, amongst the many thousands of others.

 

[Welderpaul]

Storage space is not an issue, and i don't fancy paying anyone to scan all the documents to save on filing hard copies.

 

[Jim Davey]

I have a customer asking me some questions about EN 1090, he was hoping to 'get around' the costs by calibrating one of his five machines and testing one of his five guys and claiming that everyone else was on non critical work despite fully intending to have them carry on without the appropriate quals and calibrated machinery.
Obviously I advised him this was a very foolhardy plan and that the authorities would be wise to this ploy (he's not the first guy that's said this is what they an to do) but how would he get caught?
Aside from the fact I wouldn't like the idea of an employee knowing I was trading in contravention of the rules (one grievance away from getting shopped) it seems like a very bad idea indeed.

 

[Welderpaul]

It's a bad idea as you say, but one he will more than likely get away with IMO.

I think 1090 is going to be 'self policing' in a way, in that fabricators are going to be quick to 'grass' on each other where they sense foul play such as this is occuring. Seemingly such reports cannot be ignored, whereas there are no where near enough inspectors to monitor even a very small percentage of the hundreds of thousands of fabbys in the UK.

Also, i think we would all be very quick to whistle blow if a job you were pricing/chasing went to a non-certified company.

 

[matt1978]

I don't think he would even get the approval in the first place because no Auditor in his right mind would believe that all of the 1090 work will only be carried out on the one machine that happened to be calibrated whilst there are 4 other machines sitting there. It's like saying we will only code one of the men out of the 5 because only he will do the structural work. Unless they could demonstrate that to be the case over the course of the audit then I doubt that they would pass.

 

[Welderpaul]

Don't know how much truth is in it, but i have heard from 3 reputable sources that due to the fact that a very small proportion of fabricators will have 1090 accreditation in place by 1st July 2014 that it won't be enforced for another 12 months.

Wish i was trained as an RWC. Licence to print money at the moment.

 

[john boag]

Don't know how much truth is in it, but i have heard from 3 reputable sources that due to the fact that a very small proportion of fabricators will have 1090 accreditation in place by 1st July 2014 that it won't be enforced for another 12 months.

Wish i was trained as an RWC. Licence to print money at the moment.

Don't know how much truth is in it, but i have heard from 3 reputable sources that due to the fact that a very small proportion of fabricators will have 1090 accreditation in place by 1st July 2014 that it won't be enforced for another 12 months.

Wish i was trained as an RWC. Licence to print money at the moment.

Don't know how much truth is in it, but i have heard from 3 reputable sources that due to the fact that a very small proportion of fabricators will have 1090 accreditation in place by 1st July 2014 that it won't be enforced for another 12 months.

Wish i was trained as an RWC. Licence to print money at the moment.

Hi Anyone known what work is exempt (if any ) from this piece of EU voodu

 

[dyffryn iron]

Hello and good evening from deepest darkest wales, I'm new at this forum thing so please bear with me. I am part of a small general fabrications company here on the mid Wales coast, panic has set in!!! We have been in business for about 7 years but we both have at least ten years welding experience, and are well know locally for our good quality work. We honestly knew nothing about this certification thing until last week when the other local fabricator rang us up in a panic asking us what we where planning to do. The long and short of it is we don't know.
So I would like to know exactly what we can and cannot do with out the accreditation? 95% of our work is railings, gates, agricultural machinery repairs etc etc. We do very little structural steel work would we be affected if we dropped the structural stuff??
The rumor mill is rife here and varies from we would be OK to we will be shutting shop on July the 1st!!
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, the decision not to get certified is due to the cost, not to the quality of our work lol, one guy 60 miles away says he has spent many thousands so far.
Thanks again guys!

 

[glynygof]

I am also new on this forum.I have operated my own fabricating company for the last 27 years , producing structural steel mostly farm buildings .I am in the process of gaining my C E marking.i am about half way through and have applied for my final audit .It has already cost several thousand pounds with total cost reckoned to be about ten grand to gain accreditation and then approx. two thousand per annum for annual audit welding tests etc.
For structural work you need to be certified , that includes farm buildings , domestic work, any beam used in a house that is either welded or even drilled , railings around a balcony or on a stair are included.Also all work on industrial buildings is included.
You would be alright with repairs to farm machinery , farm gates feeders etc. Any railings where the fall on the other side is less than two foot , garden fence etc are not included in the CE marking.Hope this helps .
Glyn

 

[dyffryn iron]

Cheers Glyn, at last someone who's actually doing it and not guessing. That's a lot of money for our little business and I can't imagine how long it would take to cover the costs. We will have to see what the future holds, but it ain't pretty!
Cheers again

 

[matt1978]

I should imagine a decent proportion of that cost was paying for the welders to be coded and even more so, the welding procedures to be written and then tested/qualified.

For EXC 2 the "norm" States that the use of Pre qualified procedures is allowed for 355 material and below.

It may save you some money to buy a new machine and then the WPS booklet.

You'll still have to get your guys coded and also a FPC in place but the WPS's are a large part of peoples costs