CE conformity in UK

[Parm]

Sorry if I pricked you there @Parm , didn't mean to. But, if an organisation needs to have the new mark on an item of ppe then it gets tested, pass or fail. If an organisation is selling, say a control panel, made up of a few hunderd bits, that panel as a whole would need all the bits tested and marked, or, be tested in its entirety - but how? The testers wouldn't know how to test it, or what tests to use etc. That's all I meant.
Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

I do t mi denied g “pricked” not at all

 

[minimutly]

I do t mi denied g “pricked” not at all

Lol, you drunk @Parm?

 

[Parm]

Lol, you drunk @Parm?

No not all, but I’m realising that mypoxy iPad isn’t behaving

 

[Gwil]

We will have the UKCA mark to replace CE, but as with everything we haven't been on the ball and things are running behind so until the end of 2022 both systems will be accepted then strictly UKCA only

But what are the implications for export to the EU? Will the UKCA mark be equivalent (or a higher standard) and be accepted?

 

[matt1978]

But what are the implications for export to the EU? Will the UKCA mark be equivalent (or a higher standard) and be accepted?

If it’s for export to the EU it still also must display the CE mark.

In theory it should be straight forward because initially UKCA will be issued against the Already existing EN standards, but as Parm said the reality is often very different.

The bigger issues will come when the EN standards change and we don’t adopt them or we change our standards to deviate from the EN norms. Then a Product could have to satisfy and comply to 2 different standards.

 

[bricol]

Then a Product could have to satisfy and comply to 2 different standards.

To some extent that already happens if you sell in Europe and the USA - and even internally in the USA, some states recognise parts of UL requirements, some don't.

I'm sure there will be another panel set-up that will take years to decide what to do, which will no doubt change their mind after a year or two.

I'm designing a system at the moment, using our gear, some equipment from the several manufacturers in the US, a reasonable amount from Europe, that is going to be incorporated into someone else's bit of kit designed and manufactured in the middle east - luckily while I have to bear it certification in mind, I don't have to know all the ins and outs of different approvals, and certainly not as much as our electrical team - and I certainly don't have to put my name to the certificate as a responsible person

 

[matt1978]

To some extent that already happens if you sell in Europe and the USA - and even internally in the USA, some states recognise parts of UL requirements, some don't.

I'm sure there will be another panel set-up that will take years to decide what to do, which will no doubt change their mind after a year or two.

I'm designing a system at the moment, using our gear, some equipment from the several manufacturers in the US, a reasonable amount from Europe, that is going to be incorporated into someone else's bit of kit designed and manufactured in the middle east - luckily while I have to bear it certification in mind, I don't have to know all the ins and outs of different approvals, and certainly not as much as our electrical team - and I certainly don't have to put my name to the certificate as a responsible person

Yes also Australia/NZ has their own standards.

Surely it’s time they chosen the most stringent out of all the “local” standards and made it an ISO then all the main global markets adopted them.

I’ve seen it first hand with some PAPR units, it has to be tested and passed separately for the Aus/NZ, European and USA markets. After 2022 it would potentially have to be tested to a UKCA standard on top. Surely common sense would suggest that if it passes the most strictest, stringent standard whether that be the EN, Aus/Nz or USA then it should automatically pass the remaining. But when it comes to health and safety in developed countries then surely if it’s deemed safe for an Australian to use then it should also be suitable for a Brit or an American. They should just have one standard to suit all. But I guess there is too much money to be made out of Red tape and compliance testing

 

[Ctreanor13]

Sorry if I pricked you there @Parm , didn't mean to. But, if an organisation needs to have the new mark on an item of ppe then it gets tested, pass or fail. If an organisation is selling, say a control panel, made up of a few hunderd bits, that panel as a whole would need all the bits tested and marked, or, be tested in its entirety - but how? The testers wouldn't know how to test it, or what tests to use etc. That's all I meant.
Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

I get what you're saying. I was always told that CE + CE! = CE. Meaning that just because you use all CE certified parts, the end result does not necessarily mean it will be CE compliant. For example, at work we make lights. All shapes and sizes. Every aspect from the chemical used to antique the brass to the wiring, lampholder etc all must comply with the BS60598 standard as well as the way in which the fitting is assembled and tested. Only then, can it result be considered CE compliant and as a result, now, can bear the UKCA mark if it could end up on the UK market. Not an expert but did have a few years experience in lighting quality control (CE & UL)

 

[Lewis_RX8]

Could have saved millions

but This is interesting

PPE procurement in the early pandemic

Information about the government's procurement exercise to secure critical personal protective equipment (PPE) during the early months of the COVID-19 pandemic.

www.gov.uk

We had a load of China special N95 issued at work real horrible things but was at the real bottleneck of PPE procurement then they where all withdrawn as turned out the certificates were all tosh and had to be binned. Must have been even worse for NHS and similar.

 

[Parm]

We had a load of China special N95 issued at work real horrible things but was at the real bottleneck of PPE procurement then they where all withdrawn as turned out the certificates were all tosh and had to be binned. Must have been even worse for NHS and similar.

I cannot even tell you about the amount of fake stuff we have seen

china special would have been KN95, what most folk don’t realise is that in China this type of product doesn’t need to be independently certified by a notified body. Any certificates are self produced by the manufacturer, supplier etc

most of this stopped after this

Use of face masks designated KN95 - HSE

A substantial number of face masks claiming to be of KN95 standards are likely to be poor quality products accompanied by fake or fraudulent paperwork.

www.hse.gov.uk

 

[roofman]

I cannot even tell you about the amount of fake stuff we have seen

china special would have been KN95, what most folk don’t realise is that in China this type of product doesn’t need to be independently certified by a notified body. Any certificates are self produced by the manufacturer, supplier etc

most of this stopped after this

Use of face masks designated KN95 - HSE

A substantial number of face masks claiming to be of KN95 standards are likely to be poor quality products accompanied by fake or fraudulent paperwork.

www.hse.gov.uk

I have seen more fake stuff in 2 days than i care to again...have another 3 weeks of it too thank god i am out of the human mess 30ft up where the air is clean. Sorry to go off track here but google Bury Road in Manchester

 

[Parm]

I have seen more fake stuff in 2 days that i care to again...have another 3 weeks of it too thank god i am out of the human mess 30ft up where the air is clean. Sorry to go off track here but google Bury Road in Manchester

Yep. Del Boy capital of the UK

 

[matt1978]

I get what you're saying. I was always told that CE + CE! = CE. Meaning that just because you use all CE certified parts, the end result does not necessarily mean it will be CE compliant. For example, at work we make lights. All shapes and sizes. Every aspect from the chemical used to antique the brass to the wiring, lampholder etc all must comply with the BS60598 standard as well as the way in which the fitting is assembled and tested. Only then, can it result be considered CE compliant and as a result, now, can bear the UKCA mark if it could end up on the UK market. Not an expert but did have a few years experience in lighting quality control (CE & UL)

I think that’s more so if your creating a new product or system out of the Sum of the CE marked individual parts. In that case then the new system has to be risk assessed and tested on its own merits

 

[minimutly]

I think that’s more so if your creating a new product or system out of the Sum of the CE marked individual parts. In that case then the new system has to be risk assessed and tested on its own merits

Tested? For what? The stuff I'm involved with needs to be installed, connected up and commisioned before you can ask anything of it, good luck ce marking that.

 

[matt1978]

Tested? For what? The stuff I'm involved with needs to be installed, connected up and commisioned before you can ask anything of it, good luck ce marking that.

I mean when you said just because it’s CE+CE doesn’t automatically mean that it will be CE. My comment was in relation to some of the Automation systems that we sell, so you can have a welding machine that is CE marked, have a automatic welding torch that is CE marked, have a Turn Table that is CE marked, but when you put them all together and sell them as a system, the system itself isn’t automatically CE marked because a new system has been created from a sum of the individual items. The new system has to be risk assessed on its own merits

 

[Parm]

I get what you're saying. I was always told that CE + CE! = CE. Meaning that just because you use all CE certified parts, the end result does not necessarily mean it will be CE compliant. For example, at work we make lights. All shapes and sizes. Every aspect from the chemical used to antique the brass to the wiring, lampholder etc all must comply with the BS60598 standard as well as the way in which the fitting is assembled and tested. Only then, can it result be considered CE compliant and as a result, now, can bear the UKCA mark if it could end up on the UK market. Not an expert but did have a few years experience in lighting quality control (CE & UL)

I don’t know anything about lighting but you can’t do this for PPE

if you buy individually CE tested components and make into a final product Then the final product must be tested against the relevant standard to gain CE

 

[Parm]

I mean when you said just because it’s CE+CE doesn’t automatically mean that it will be CE. My comment was in relation to some of the Automation systems that we sell, so you can have a welding machine that is CE marked, have a automatic welding torch that is CE marked, have a Turn Table that is CE marked, but when you put them all together and sell them as a system, the system itself isn’t automatically CE marked because a new system has been created from a sum of the individual items. The new system has to be risk assessed on its own merits

Yes I agree, this is the same for PPE that I’ve been dealing with