CCTV recommendations

[knighty]

Many criminals know that many CCTV systems aren't good enough quality for evidencial purposes and simply don't care because they know their solicitor will do an instant SAR to the manufacturers and ascertain their quality, most CCTV evidence is then thrown out by the CPS as they wan't convictions and not future claims.

that's the kicker, everyone here knows how great the cctv is, I'm sure everyone has come to have a look at some point when something funny has happened like someone slipping on ice and doing a dance etc. etc.

plus... there's a screen in the tea room showing the feed from the yard/entrance gate so we can see customers coming during lunch etc.. plenty of customers etc. see the feed and talk about how good it is with staff


I think some people are just scum, can't help themselves

 

[sg66]

I've got reolink 4k 8mp, video and sound have been great, been running for 8months, phone app can be a bit buggy, sometimes kicks you out, I don't have ir switched on, there is enough light in the street.

The sound recording is more often more useful than the video.....

 

[ukracer]

I've got reolink 4k 8mp, video and sound have been great, been running for 8months, phone app can be a bit buggy, sometimes kicks you out, I don't have ir switched on, there is enough light in the street.

The sound recording is more often more useful than the video.....

I have been trying to use Ring door bell to redirect couriers who can't read (or systems that don't work) but although I almost have my phone in my hand by the time I have turned on mic and speakers they have gone. 99.9% of them can't be arsed to use the doorbell.

So I am not that impressed with the speed it connects.
Plus the volume at the doorbell end is very low and lags a lot.

 

[waddycall]

Which kit did you get in the end.

This one -

8ch NVR-3760 and 4 x 5MP 2.8mm-3358 Camera IP HiLook by Hikvision COMBO [3156-2]

RF3156-2 Combo Kit: 1 x 8ch HiLook by Hikvision POE NVR NVR-108MH-C/8P [3760] 4 x 5MP 2.8mm HiLook Turret Dome IP cameras IPC-T250H-MU 3358 This kit does not include cables or a hard drive. Please select this option when adding to the basket if required. 4 camera IP combo kit, contains an 8...

www.rfconcepts.co.uk

So many options out there but this seemed like a good one. I also had four 20m cables. Managed to run the four cables down behind a stud wall right where the router sits. The cables run across the loft and through the soffit to the cameras.

 

[Farside]

Once it’s all installed the forever war with spiderwebs can begin!

On the one camera that's all that much affected by them, I find it mostly self-cleans with the periodic showers and the way they're blown onto the lens / IR surround. This winter, being as mild as it is so far, has seen extra web activity, but still gets them cleaned off.
I think I'll put up extra IR illuminators and switch off the on-camera ones if I can.

 

[sg66]

This came about several years ago when a court threw out video evidence of a crime and they set standards which must be complied with for video used in evidence and this was basically quality and image size. Since then CCTV has improved and many systems are evidence compliant and audio is very useful in its own right and as corrobarative evidence to the images, Our system has excellent audio and picks up things you wouldn't normally hear by ear alone and many police forces have access to approved laboratories who can clean up the audio to the point it becomes better evidence that the video element, put them together and you have powerful evidence.

The detail in 8mp is great for zooming in but the sound was a surprise, can hear conversation when you can't see them.

 

[daleyd]

From the horses mouth here in a gov document. There are NO definitive standards that are applied to cctv evidence in terms of quality, each is assessed on its own merit and if it’s good/legible enough then it can be used.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/378449/09-05-UK-Police-Requireme22835.pdf

 

[daleyd]

a court threw out video evidence of a crime and they set standards which must be complied with for video used in evidence

Try reading it correctly as you have downloaded the Police requirements and not the courts requirements, the guidance given to Police are somewhat different and include gathering and storage of all evidence and using it in an intended prosecution. It is always the courts decision whether to include or exclude evidence and not the Police, they merely investigate and give their evidence to the CPS to decide on prosecuting or not.

Could you provide information as to these minimum standards then? You won’t be able to as there are none, the only criteria is that it must be “fit for purpose” - there is nothing laid down as to minimum size or quality of images. If you have an all singing all dancing 4K system the evidence won’t be accepted if the picture is rubbish, likewise if you have an old pre HD system but it meets what they need then it can be used.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

@daleyd .
Spot on.
No more to say to that.

Most CCTV media supplied as evidence is rejected as it is, as you say, not fit for purpose.

I used to maintain a CCTV system using 8 video recorders. That was good enough then as it is now.

Recently a brand new IP system media was deemed not acceptable as the cameras were not set up correctly.

 

[prepman]

Had some funny goings on around our house this week which is making me a bit twitchy. Can anyone recommend a good quality 4 camera CCTV system for DIY installation? I’m after quality gear that’ll last a long time with a fair price rather than cheap and nasty.
Cheers

Just installed (partly) a wired, 8ch Swann system. I have a complete spare Yale 4 channel which I ended up getting for free (ebay), because being motion only detection it gave 100+ notifications per day with driving rain. The Swann system is mariginally better. But the Yale system was the 'Essentials' version (budget). The Swann is the 'Enforcer' with led spot (not really a flood) and flashing red/blue beacon. Having an integral PIR, it's a better option marginally. Still great for checking on the weather remotely
I chose Yale initially because I didn't want to go through a 'Chinese' server for remote surviellance, like my previous cheapo system. The streaming speed I think was better, compared to the Swann. I'm thinking that the higher spec Yale might be the better option. The cameras and mounts are certainly more substantial.
IMHO the server security is important as it could end up giving the the inverse of security. Also 8 channel is a better option to add wifi units for non critical use ...nest boxes etc.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yales can be set up to reduce that. But you will need the engineers code to access the menue for it.

 

[knighty]

quick reminder to clean your cameras - those two snapshots are 2 min apart... shocking difference

some cameras seam to get dirty quicker than others... must be the way the wind blows?

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

quick reminder to clean your cameras - those two snapshots are 2 min apart... shocking difference

some cameras seam to get dirty quicker than others... must be the way the wind blows?

View attachment 326042 View attachment 326043

That should be part of the service and a rountine of the system owner.
Dirt is a majot factor in poor image.

 

[knighty]

That should be part of the service and a rountine of the system owner.
Dirt is a majot factor in poor image.

It's my system, I set it up, it's my job to clean it (or tell someone else to)

easier to do it myself because I'll ride the forklift forks while someone lifts me up to clean them

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

It's my system, I set it up, it's my job to clean it (or tell someone else to)

easier to do it myself because I'll ride the forklift forks while someone lifts me up to clean them

In a suitable basket of course.

 

[pawsnizzy]

Are there any decent lens requirement calculators online, or is it something that an installer is better off doing - I'd like to put my own in, preferably though?

 

[daleyd]

Sigh….If there are “minimum standards” as you stated earlier then please either say what they are or where to find them. You won’t because there are none - as I said it’s either deemed to be good enough or not, there are no numbers they put on image size or quality that are set in stone as being acceptable. All of which depends on what you are trying to look at, eg a low res image might be perfectly ok if you can make out a number plate but a high res image might be unacceptable if the persons face is obscured.

Your refusal to provide any actual links to back this up is not helping, so I’ll just leave the link to the official home office guidance and leave it at that.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Are there any decent lens requirement calculators online, or is it something that an installer is better off doing - I'd like to put my own in, preferably though?

Look at Hick Vision web site.
They used to have a calculator to give you a base to build a system on.

The system will need the biggest hard drive you can jsutify. Modern CCTV hard drives are in the TB range. Each camera can be set up to record as you wish.
When triggered, site or sound.
A set frame rate all the time, increasing when triggered.

The limit on any CCTV system is cable length, again refere to manufcatures specs. Most modern systems can be fitted with signal and power boasters. Or you can have radio links, wireless systems or a combination of the systems.

All cameras systems can be linked to an intruder alarm. Or be configured to send a siganl to a monitoring station. Or to you.

A simple way to get a idea what you need, want or is avaialable to you is to contact a local secuiry compay and arrange a free survay. That will give you a good idea.

One thing I always used to spec is a "break glass" detector fitted. That will trigger the system is a window is broken.

In the worse case and images are down loaded for the police. Do not try to improve the footage. The Police will do that.
If the images or fottage is suitable to be used.

A lot of system I mainted up until end of last year were let down by.
Cameras not looking at the wrong place. EG not lined up with detectors.

Site lay out being changed so the areas of detection not relivant.
Poor images.
Detectors switched off.

If you need down load images, do it to:
USB stick.
CD ROM.
Only down laod the relivant footage. But save all images from the day in question to s secure part of the drive.

PZT (Pan Zoom Tilt) cameras are improving so fast now, cameras I fitted last year are already surpassed by this year range. Cameras them selfs are getting compact and having more facilities on board.

IP is the way to go.

 

[Dev]

So you still persist with your disinformation, this is for the POLICE evidential trail for submission to the CPS and not the requirement of the court who ultimately decide which video evidence is acceptable.

You are wrong.


Users of CCTV systems, like you and me and anyone with a shop or business.

 

[Dev]

Are there any decent lens requirement calculators online, or is it something that an installer is better off doing - I'd like to put my own in, preferably though?

Most manuafacturers show a Field of View for each camera/lens. So off the top of my head a 4mm lens gives 90 degrees more or less, a 2.8 will be wider, 6mm will be narrower etc. There’s also calculators you can download for your phone that you can put in width of frame, distance and it’ll tell you what size lens. To cover a 4m wide gate, 20m away lens size x.

Bear in mind thats the view and built in IR may not light that distance.