cavity protection options ?

  1. stevieturbo Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Norn Iron
    I'm currently doing some welding repairs, and as such will end up with a lot of bare metal or burnt back of welds in pretty much inaccessible locations.

    Some more or less sealed cavities, or some just very inaccessible say like a corner window scuttle. Or in behind a door hinge panel, sill cavities etc.

    What are the best options for poking something in to get some sort of protection applied to these areas ?

    TBH when I've cut the rust out and welded repairs in, it doesnt even look like the original parts had any protection in some areas because multiple layers had been stacked etc although the deeper layers had lasted fine.
     
  2. RaceDiagnostics Forum Supporter

    I've been using Dinitrol ML, injecting annually into my restored car. It is runny and can seep into joints as opposed to being a thicker wax.
     
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  3. stevieturbo Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Norn Iron
    In years gone by, I had used a Waxoyl thingy...long nylon hose with like a nail in the end but IF...and I say IF...you get it all working right, with hot thin waxoyl, it did spray out a 360deg fan around it.
    But it was incredibly difficult to get it to do that

    Ideally that's probably the type of thing I want, but one that works right every time, as once it's inside the cavity you cant see what it's doing

    The best description I heard years ago...was literally plug any holes, and fill up the entire cavity, then let any excess drain out lol. Although that's not so practical.
     
  4. bricol Member

    Messages:
    957
    N.Yorks, UK
    One of these:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professi...035467&hash=item1c4a55bdd3:g:FsUAAOSwZlZaJVCQ

    I've used mine for waxoyl, dinitrol, Noxudol, underbody wax from Bilt Hamber and Rustbusters. It just works. Shove the long wand down inside the cavity, pull the trigger, pull the wand back - watch the mist appear out of any holes on the way back. The hand lance thingie works well to spray underbody wax (not underseal!) - the handle is ajustable down the tube to get into more places.

    Come with spare seals, and additonal spare seals are available, but I'm still on the original set several years later. It just works.
     
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  5. tom2207 Member

    Messages:
    457
    Location:
    uk northern ireland
    ACF 50 ,,, sprayed out of a cat cleaning gun is just so great.
     
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  6. scottmk1

    scottmk1 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    1,302
    Location:
    Scotland
    I've got that too and it is pretty good. I've been using Dinitrol Classic Wax in it.
     
  7. Burdekin

    Burdekin Chief Bodger

    Messages:
    5,009
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    I also use Dinitrol ML or 3125. I buy it from this seller and is a good price and fast delivery. https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/rejelrustproofing Also have the gun linked above. I water down a rust converter 50 50 so it will spray and soak the insides and leave for a couple of days first. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AQUASTEE...IMER-FOR-BRUSH-OR-SPRAY-2-5-Ltr-/253897101464

    From Rustbuster:

    RUST PREVENTING WAXES AND OILS
    All of the previous discussion on surface preparation applies when considering the use of rust preventing waxes. I have discussions with many customers over the phone via email or at the shows we attend about the abilities of certain waxes performance at preventing rust. So at the want of repeating myself and as the Irishman said "Not starting from here If I were you" I am going to assume you have started from one of the already mentioned rusty / rust free situations and you now have a suitably prepared surface that you want to protect with a rust proofing wax. But what about cavities you can't see or prepare? Should you use a converter injected into the cavities prior to wax injection? ... I have long pondered this one, some say do some say don't. Back in the days when we used to deal mainly with marine corrosion it was a standard practise to soak hidden rust with oil like products that penetrated the rust inside the cavity. And due to the barrier effect it worked to a degree.The rust that forms within a crevice or seam within a hidden cavity can corrode at up to 400 times faster than corrosion on open surfaces, once humidity enters the oxygen starved crevice this rate of corrosion is just about guaranteed the application of a hygroscopic converter to passify this rust and seal it in a laytex layer is something I prefer to do... Whatever way you choose to go I'll offer the pro's of using a rust converter within cavities and let you decide.

    Rustbuster Fe-123 can be diluted to reduce its viscosity it is also damp compatible this means that it will still penetrate and convert when injected into hidden cavities even when moisture is present, in fact any moisture within the cavity will then carry the converter further into the seam by hydroscopic action, the moisture is incorporated into the Fe-123 as the solvent in Fe-123's case water is evapourated the moisture from the surface passes through the converter away from the steels surface.. Now that's got to be a positive. Agreed you may well have loose rust on the surface of the hidden cavity but you are not looking for the adhesion of a surface coating within the cavity, just make sure to use plenty of it. The down side is that Fe-123 has a lot of heavy zinc phosphate solids that are hard to atomise via a cavity injection probe. If you would prefer not to use a converter inside a cavity then there is an alternative we have a moisture displacing highly penetrative low surface tension oil based penetration fluid specifically for cavities Corrolan Penetrator. This can be used with the Corrolan system or any Wax based rust proofing products on the market.

    Petroleum based Rust Proofing

    The delivery method for injecting cavities needs to be able to atomise the product sufficiently to allow it to penetrate. Rustbusters Pro-wax injection gun is a good solution to this. Once the rust converter has fully cured you can inject the cavities with a cavity wax. Rustbuster MIL-SPEC. ASTM cavity wax will spray direct from the can when applied to the vehicle underbody for cavities this universal solution should be thinned 25% with white spirit for perfect penetration. Rustbuster MIL-SPEC. ASTM cavity wax left next to a radiator or in the airing cupboard overnight will give you a superb penetrating wax even on the coldest winter day the extra thinning for cavities should be used for extra penetration into tight seams. During the summer months it is always at a spraying consistency. Pour the wax neat into the Pro-wax injection gun and off you go, pushing the probe fully into the cavity squeeze the trigge/strongr and draw it slowly back towards you. You can't really use too much if you do, it will be in a pool on the garage floor. Just make sure to coat every part of the cavity. That's why we use a wax that flows from the tin without thinning that can be atomised and sprayed into a cavity and sets up as it dries into a flexible waxy film this then forms the barrier protection against rust we have already discussed in previous paragraphs. By all means pay attention to the salt spray test that some manufacturers use as a selling point, it is definitely relevant when dealing with under body waxes. In my opinion the test that really is significant for cavity waxes is the humidity test this is an ASTM test requirement more than surpassed by MIL-SPEC. ASTM wax and was a significant for us choosing this formula, it also has excellent ASTM salt fog protection as well, so all in all, great penetration and protection and no thinning required so the high film thickness offers an effective barrier against rust. For the vehicle underside suspension components etc. Rustbuster MIL-SPEC. ASTM wax can be applied over Epoxy-Mastic 121 or Fe-123. A traditional black underbody wax is also available in Rustbuster Techshield underbody black. This forms a dry self healing film and gives a traditional black satin colour to the vehicle underside.

    Lanolin based Rust proofing

    For those that prefer a non petroleum based product we have the Rustbuster Corrolan range. Rustbuster Corrolan is based on natural lanolin. Lanolin naturally forms a heretically sealed surface that will not allow air or water pass, by using the Corrolan penetrator primer you are able to get riight into the steels pores removing any trace of moisture before applying an injected coat of Corrolan Active cavity wax. All of the Corrolan products form self repairing flexible transparent film, the Corrolan products have various viscocities for those of you who have had hands on experience of using old sump oil and other forms of oil as a rust proofer then this product may appeal to you. If you want you can just buy one product the Rustbuster Corrolan Base, this product can be used neat as a rust proofing wire grease in a marine environment or thinned with its own safety solvent Corrolan Turbo. Corrolan Turbo is a low VOC solvent with no added odour. This make the application of Rustbuster Corrolanthe most versatile rust proofing product around. When used allong with one of our Rustbuster Pro-Wax rust proofing injection guns you really do have every rust proofing situation covered.

    100% coverage required

    A word of caution There is the distinct possibility that a poorly injected cavity could rust more than one that has not been injected at all. How come? The steel within the cavity that is not coated has a greater potential to rust than the coated steel around it due to all of the electrolytic action being focused on these bare spots. Poor injection equipment and particularly finger operated pumps will not atomise the wax sufficiently and you will get uncoated spots (holidays) within the coating. You will get similar results using a wax that does not flow or is not easily atomised, or by using poor injection equipment. If you have to thin a wax then the final barrier film thickness will be reduced by the amount of thinner you add , 30% white spirit will reduce your dry film thickness by 30%. Heating the wax and using correct equipment will give you good penetration and a good film thickness, perfect for cavity injection.

    The use of the Rustbuster Corrolan system rules out the possibility of this. By using the Corrolan penetrator first you are able to displace moisture in every pore and seam, then by adding a further coat of the Corrolan Active heavier cavity protection the full coverage is complete.
     
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  8. Dcal

    Dcal Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    1,820
    Location:
    Antrim Northern Ireland
    Where do you get your ACF50 and do you reapply every year?

    Also, where did you get your cat cleaning gun? Our cat could do with a good clean :scared:.
     
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  9. tom2207 Member

    Messages:
    457
    Location:
    uk northern ireland
    lol ,,, I buy acf 50 on line and by the gallon ,, you use very little really , a litre over does a land rover totally ,
    its stated as effective for two years , but i find it does three , then re apply , but its so easy to use , and not that messy that you can re do a full car easily in an hour . the rest of the gallon i use for all sorts of things , it makes a great releasing fluid , I keep my tool box dusted in it , bench top etc etc .,
    yes hard to beat a clean cat ,, My friend bought a spray gun for putting some chemical inside cats , its just the usual sort of paint pot on a under seal gun idea , but it has a lance on it that is about 4 ft long , and it has a very fine set of holes on the end , it puts out a mist similar to hairspray can , and thats all you actually need of this stuff ,,, if you bung it in one side of a rear x member and watch down the length you can see the mist coming out of all the holes and openings , like a cloud of smoke. you only need a very fine mist to do the job , no need for it to be dripping out of the chassis ,,, you can get up a posts and into the top cavity in bulkheads very easily and effectively , its clean , smells nice , washes off your hands , does not set in the gun , is non flammable for re work and I find it works. It stops all the dusty rust that seems to develop on the underside of Jap cars dead in its tracks , so a quick skiff round the suspension and axles etc on a five year old toyota for example takes a few mins with a standard paint spray gun , and keeps it right to next years mot. same with land rover out riggers and diff housings great round electrical multi plugs too , as it does not set into a goo.
    just dont get it on brakes , it really is a spectacular lube ,,,
    and did I mention ,,,, it smells nice lol
    do a google search and have a think .
     
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  10. Dcal

    Dcal Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    1,820
    Location:
    Antrim Northern Ireland
    Thanks @tom2207 I will give it a try.
    I have been using Rust Buster products and am happy enough but always ready to try something else.
    From your description I've already got a cat cleaning gun.
    By the looks of thinks they are quite popular on here.

    A Delta I did a few years ago had repeated applications of wax over the years (don't know the type) and the sills were rusting away merrily under the dried wax.
    It's really hard to know what to do to be right, but it's a pig of a job getting dried wax out of box sections.
     
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  11. tom2207 Member

    Messages:
    457
    Location:
    uk northern ireland
    The formulation of Waxol changed about ten years ago , I find it now creates a lot more problems than folk think it solves ,
     
  12. stevieturbo Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Norn Iron

    That looks like the sort of thing I'm after. And yes if it can also spray some sort of rust killer first, even better. Is it a low pressure sort of deal, or highish pressure ?

    Some of the Dinitrol bottles in the other links appear to have a screw on top for some sort of gun, would they be better...or just buy by the gallon and pour into the bottle supplied with the gun ?
     
  13. Burdekin

    Burdekin Chief Bodger

    Messages:
    5,009
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    6bar.

    The bottles screw into a Schultz gun, they are good and cheap and come with a shorter and thicker wand.

    If your holes are big enough the Schultz gun will do and you could make a longer wand hose if needed. The Schultz gun doesn't come with a wand for the external, you would need to just spray it on from the nozzle.

    Schultz gun:
     
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  14. stevieturbo Member

    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Norn Iron
    So can either tool be used for the cavity wax long reach tool as well as for a body schutz type external spray ?

    I like that spray tube shown ! good coverage.
     
  15. Burdekin

    Burdekin Chief Bodger

    Messages:
    5,009
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Yeah. The bottle spray gun also comes with a wand to spray external wax though. Both have nozzles to spray without the wands. The bottle gun wand tubes are thinner and longer. I use the Schultz to mainly spray stonechip and the bottle spray gun to spray rust wax. Both can do either.
     
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  16. RaceDiagnostics Forum Supporter

    I started off using the ML in cans directly connected to the Schultz gun with a long nozzle, but cleaning is a pain so now I just buy the ML in a spray can and use a long nozzle on that, with no cleaning up afterwards. The ML spray cans are a bit more expensive than the Shultz type cans but its only once a year.
     
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  17. Burdekin

    Burdekin Chief Bodger

    Messages:
    5,009
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Rust proofing today. 1 coat of ML and two decent coats of 4941.

    IMG_20200523_172602577.jpg IMG_20200523_170021372.jpg IMG_20200523_172648803.jpg
     
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  18. tom2207 Member

    Messages:
    457
    Location:
    uk northern ireland
    did you do inside sills etc or just the outsides .
     
  19. Burdekin

    Burdekin Chief Bodger

    Messages:
    5,009
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Just inside the chassis rails and rear arches today as the car was fully masked up. I will do the sills and doors as well.
     
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  20. scottmk1

    scottmk1 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    1,302
    Location:
    Scotland
    Is the 4941 the black stuff? Does it spray well from the gun mentioned previously? I've got that to do on my truck soon.
     
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