Car engine in dumper

[gash metal worker]

Hello,
I have a heavy breathing benford dumper with 3 clyinder lister. Apart from the dodgey engine reverse gear is a bit slow, If i was to fit a 405 diesel engine and run shaft from one gearbox to another in 5th gear would it run any faster or is 5th gear still one to one ratio.

 

[the snooper]

4th is usually 1to 1 ratio

 

[metalspanner]

Doutful that it would run faster by much by nature of the conversion, but you would definately get an increase in performance from the higher revs of the pug engine, the pug probably red lines at 6-7000 rpm.
The old lister around the 2-2200 rpm mark, this is one conversion I would love to see come to fruititon, in the great spirit of scrap heap challenge and to bodgers the world over.

GO FOR IT....

 

[the snooper]

if you really wanted something different convert the pug gearbox to fit the engine the wrong way round then you would get speed but lose power

 

[stormin]

I think Metalspanner is a bit optimistic with the revs for a diesel Pug engine but it should easily double the output of the old Lister.

Will you be able to fit the Pug diesel in the space available, and isn't it the existing Lister air cooled as opposed to water cooled car engine?

I personally think a revvy car engine will not suit a dumper for serious work. May make a fun project though.

 

[squazy84]

it would be fun but the pug engine would lack torque at the low clutch biting rpm used on a dumper,rebuild the lister would be my advice, the crank and bearings are probably still servicable, get the valves reseated with inserts and guides, and get new tips on the injectors

 

[Dr pepper]

The lister will do something like 400 revs, compared to 4000 of the pug, so you wouldnt need the 2 box's.
So reverse would be a lot quicker, you'd need to run the pug at 1500 to get power so you'd have to drive 3 times quicker in reverse min.
In forwards you could still use the pugrot's box lower gears for a selection.
5th gear on a pugrot from memory is 0.87 to 1, 4th 1 to 1 on most cars, if you used a fwd engine and box, then to be able to use just 1 driveshaft you'd have to either take the non required drive shaft to an anchor point or weld up the diff, I've done this it works, dont forget there is 3.4 to 1 reduction in the diff.
Still unless you just want to play, or your skint you'be better fixin the lister, the pug xud9 is a very good motor if you go that route.

 

[stormin]

if you used a fwd engine and box, then to be able to use just 1 driveshaft you'd have to either take the non required drive shaft to an anchor point or weld up the diff, I've done this it works, dont forget there is 3.4 to 1 reduction in the diff.

Welding up the diff is the way to go. Just anchoring one drive shaft is asking a lot of the side and planet gears in the centre of the diff, all the load and high speed rotation to rotate one shaft is not what they're designed for.

 

[Dr pepper]

Agreed.
I just realised, sounds like this guy is gonna weld the pug eng/box on the dumper connected to the dumpers original box, so then the orginal for/rev gear can be used, if thats the case then 5 different ratios can be selected this way, nifty.
Just check first mate the the output shaft goes the right way, if not turn the whole thing around.

 

[gash metal worker]

Thanks for the input most informative,I allready have 1 405 engine driving a 5 ton lathe so know a little about engine direction etc. It would be a bit of aproblem driving the oil pump and fixing a radiator.However had a brainstorm last night and am know thinking of fitting larger dia. tyres. Cheers

 

[Dr pepper]

A car engine driving a lathe, fantastic.

I made a portable sawbench with a wacker plate engine, but nothing like that.

 

[stormin]

Thanks for the input most informative,I allready have 1 405 engine driving a 5 ton lathe so know a little about engine direction etc. It would be a bit of aproblem driving the oil pump and fixing a radiator.However had a brainstorm last night and am know thinking of fitting larger dia. tyres. Cheers

Is that larger diameter tyres and fettling the original Lister engine or are you still thinking of an engine swap?

 

[oz.]

405 TD engine peak torque is at 3000. Peak power is at 4000. Red line at 5000. Turbo spools up at around 1750 usually. Boost is usually set quite low. Standard turbo/intercooler setup can safely take 16psi before getting into overheating problems. Thats with the intercooler under the bonnet and on top of the block.

Final drive of the gearbox will be around 3:1 but thats on 14" wheels with 185/55 tyres (4" sidewalls) so thats only a total of 22" dia. Dumper tyres are a little bigger than this so the gearbox ratios will have to be re-calculated.

 

[Joseph Peace]

From my experience with my dumper, the massive flywheel makes all the difference. I think you'd want to keep the flywheel or find one to put in there. The flywheel sort of smoothes out the whole thing and aids low speed off road driving. Look forward to hearing about the results.

 

[gash metal worker]

Yes Stormin i am now thinking of fixing the lister and running with bigger wheels.The lister on further examination has a diesel leak on one of the leakback pipes,stopping this and an up exhust pipe should help the fume problem.

 

[the snooper]

what fumes ? is it burning oil or just diesel fumes if diesel fumes take the injector out and get it serviced a bad spray pattern can cause incomplete combustion. if its burning oil fit a new set of rings.

 

[gash metal worker]

I have only just bought the dumper and am still on a learning curve.I think most of the fumes are comming from the diesel splashing on to a hot engine. Tomorrow will get some new pipe for the leakback.

 

[Dr pepper]

Some of the smaller listers are known for leaky pumps, ofetn leaking into the crankcase, watch the oil level if it goes up thats yer problem.
Dont forget a rattle flap at the top of the exhaust if you extend it, to keep the rain oot.

 

[gash metal worker]

Have managed to stop the diesel leaks,oil level in engine seems constant,what seems to be happing is after about 5 mins running , blue smoke emmiting possibly from the base of one of the clyinders.Is there a seal between the block and clyinder?.Although its a bit hard to see with the covers in place.