Car body restoration questions

[Domdom]

Evening Chaps.

Just had a conversation with my Bruv, he has an old XR4i which he is restoring. Started out as a cosmetic makeover right up to the point he got the carpet out.

Now, even back in my apprentice days the boss always said I weld too hot. I might agree but on thick steel it doesn’t really matter, it just gives a bit more penetration.

However, on this little lot it will be far less forgiving. Anything hot here will blow through but I’m also wary of welds that are too cold. This lot is structural so I need it to be strong, pretty and a decent job basically.

Where on earth to start? Please help. Don’t want to mess this up. The question really is how to get the right settings for a smooth and well penetrated weld without blowing holes. I’m also not keen on millions of blob welds, but I am aware of distortion with too much heat.

thanks. Dom.

 

[Shedendman]

I'd rip that floor pan out and replace it,you'll be chasing that rot,get that put in then work outwards

 

[tom2207]

Thats not too bad at all , do a good clean up with a wire brush in a grinder , make sure you dont take out too much at once and mess with door gaps etc ,,,
get some 1.2mm to fab parts , and have a practice for a while welding that gauge , sounds like you do more heavy stuff .
a decent hunk of copper ad a backing strip will help too , and probably lots of stitching . a lot of it will depend on what panels are available , but being a ford theres probably lots.
one wee piece at a time and you will get there.

 

[Domdom]

I'd rip that floor pan out and replace it,you'll be chasing that rot,get that put in then work outwards

The main floor is fine, it’s more the inner sills that seem to have vapourised.

 

[Shedendman]

Clean it all up from the sills to the centre or to as close as(good clean steel) inside and underneath,then assess
i see its had a repair/work done to it before recently underneath

 

[Shedendman]

@Domdom what year is it?
@tom2207 panels,yer theres lots but i've been scouting around and its how much ££££

 

[Dilkris]

Wow !!!! You guys that work on metal body work just blow me away - looking at that I wouldn't know where to start !!!

 

[Shedendman]

Wow !!!! You guys that work on metal body work just blow me away - looking at that I wouldn't know where to start !!!

With an old XR4i the 1st place to start is your bank balance

 

[Dilkris]

With an old XR4i the 1st place to start is your bank balance

I understand that part - I'm rebuilding a lotus......

 

[pedrobedro]

With an old XR4i the 1st place to start is your bank balance

One on Bangers and Cash last week went for a lot of money, make a decent job of it and it will appreciate nicely.

 

[SierraV6]

Evening Chaps.

Just had a conversation with my Bruv, he has an old XR4i which he is restoring. Started out as a cosmetic makeover right up to the point he got the carpet out.

Now, even back in my apprentice days the boss always said I weld too hot. I might agree but on thick steel it doesn’t really matter, it just gives a bit more penetration.

However, on this little lot it will be far less forgiving. Anything hot here will blow through but I’m also wary of welds that are too cold. This lot is structural so I need it to be strong, pretty and a decent job basically.

Where on earth to start? Please help. Don’t want to mess this up. The question really is how to get the right settings for a smooth and well penetrated weld without blowing holes. I’m also not keen on millions of blob welds, but I am aware of distortion with too much heat.

thanks. Dom.

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That’s a familiar sight!

In regard to welding technique, lots of ‘blobs’ will be the easiest way to avoid distortion (and blowing through). If you use a copper heat sink as suggested you’ll be able to use a reasonable amount of heat and get full penetration. Once dressed up the welds should be more or less invisible (the copper should help with that on the rear).

Are you fitting any new off the shelf panels?

 

[Matchless]

All the welding that has already been done especially around the arch but not a drop of waxoil, even old engine oil, nothing, I have three cans of waxoil waiting for the Jag to get sprayed.

 

[Domdom]

That’s a familiar sight!

In regard to welding technique, lots of ‘blobs’ will be the easiest way to avoid distortion (and blowing through). If you use a copper heat sink as suggested you’ll be able to use a reasonable amount of heat and get full penetration. Once dressed up the welds should be more or less invisible (the copper should help with that on the rear).

Are you fitting any new off the shelf panels?

Yes, there will be some new panels wherever they are available. Otherwise it’s hours of tin bashing.
where to source a chunk of copper though? The stuff on the bay looks too small.
tia.

 

[SierraV6]

Yes, there will be some new panels wherever they are available. Otherwise it’s hours of tin bashing.
where to source a chunk of copper though? The stuff on the bay looks too small.
tia.

It doesn’t need to be huge, I’ve seen people use flattened water pipes. Remember it’s useful to be able to bend it to shape.

You can of course buy purpose made tools:

Eastwood 4 inch Magnetic Copper Welding Backer

Eastwood 4 inch Magnetic Copper Welding Backer from Frost.co.uk - The Specialist of High Quality Tools & Equipment for the Classic Vehicle Restorer

www.frost.co.uk

Welders Copper Helper Spoon - 3pc

Welders Copper Helper Spoon - 3pc Set Flat / Curve / Angle Copper Plates from Frost.co.uk - The Specialist of High Quality Tools & Equipment for the Classic Vehicle Restorer

www.frost.co.uk

 

[droopsnoot]

One on Bangers and Cash last week went for a lot of money, make a decent job of it and it will appreciate nicely.

I thought the two last week were Cosworths, but I might have not been paying attention. Doesn't detract from your point, though - pretty much any old Ford seems to go for decent prices. If anything I thought those two Cosworths were on the cheap side, but then it was filmed in 2019.

I'm doing similar stuff on my 1986 Audi coupe - it's mainly gone in the flanges where the inner sill meets both the outer sill and the edge of the floor. I've been cutting out relatively short lengths of it and replacing it, in theory to minimise how far anything can move. Panels generally aren't available, so it's not as if I can use the new panel to make sure everything is in the right place.

 

[Domdom]

I thought the two last week were Cosworths,

The beauty of high Cosworth prices is that many repair sections are avail;able for the 3 door shell. The XR4i is ostensibly the same shell.

 

[tom2207]

All the welding that has already been done especially around the arch but not a drop of waxoil, even old engine oil, nothing, I have three cans of waxoil waiting for the Jag to get sprayed.

think about trying acf 50 ,,, Waxol really isnt what it used to be.

 

[tom2207]

Yes, there will be some new panels wherever they are available. Otherwise it’s hours of tin bashing.
where to source a chunk of copper though? The stuff on the bay looks too small.
tia.

lump of old bus bar out of an industrial distro cabinet , all you need is a lump about six inches long , couple of inches wide and half inch thick if you can get it , or there abouts . ideally a couple or more of those as sooner or later you will bevel edges and put a radius on a corner to get into awkward spots and things , I have about three bits I use for most things , one is a foot long and its great , a six inch bit gets used often and lastly a bit about two inches square , very good for jamming in tight spots , or using on '' the other side'' as a heat sink , but they do get warm quickly , so watch your pinkies.
Even if you have to go down to the local scrap metal dealer and buy it it will be money very well invested.

 

[Domdom]

think about trying acf 50 ,,, Waxol really isnt what it used to be.

Dinitrol is the stuff these days, from a Land Rover enthusiast. 2nd in line is Buzzweld.

 

[Cobbler]

s,, Waxol really isnt what it used to be.

It never has been.......

I’ve never had good results with it, I have found their underseal with Waxoil in ok though.