- Thread starter simonh
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migmag
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Take em both if ya want and no they don't have their name on.
In fact sometimes I get purple bottle with green handle sometimes black,yellow so I doubt when I think about it they are bothered about whats on the bottle......................
filling bottles by your self a no go
I am nursing a bad injury at the minute from trying to transfer some argon from a 10.5 bottle to a 2.2.
this is definately a no brainer for me now as i got hit in the chest with the hose and clamp as it couldnt take the 2000psi from the 10.5 c/m bottle.
i was very lucky it didnt hit my face or eyes as it would have wreccked them, lucky it hit my collar bone and stopped there, blood everywhere.
dont do it please learn from my mistake even if your in a hurry to finish a job, pay the money and let the proffesionals do it
I am nursing a bad injury at the minute from trying to transfer some argon from a 10.5 bottle to a 2.2.
this is definately a no brainer for me now as i got hit in the chest with the hose and clamp as it couldnt take the 2000psi from the 10.5 c/m bottle.
i was very lucky it didnt hit my face or eyes as it would have wreccked them, lucky it hit my collar bone and stopped there, blood everywhere.
dont do it please learn from my mistake even if your in a hurry to finish a job, pay the money and let the proffesionals do it
Paul.
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You were brave to try it but even braver to post your unfortunate outcome. But i'm sure that's obvious now anyway!!
All I can add is that the last person to try it in the UK (that was in the news June 2009) was tragically killed and the person standing nearby received serious injuries. Although I didn't know them you have to remember the family left behind due to a situation which could have been avoided. Some reports say that they were professionals but the cylinder was a random one (but please don't quote me on this)
http://www.bucksfire.gov.uk/BucksFire/News/2009/Mandiesaftergascyclinderexplosion.htm
DO NOT MESS WITH GAS CYLINDERS, YOUR LIVES ARE WORTH MORE THAN A FEW QUID SAVED BY TAKING THE RISK
All I can add is that the last person to try it in the UK (that was in the news June 2009) was tragically killed and the person standing nearby received serious injuries. Although I didn't know them you have to remember the family left behind due to a situation which could have been avoided. Some reports say that they were professionals but the cylinder was a random one (but please don't quote me on this)
http://www.bucksfire.gov.uk/BucksFire/News/2009/Mandiesaftergascyclinderexplosion.htm
DO NOT MESS WITH GAS CYLINDERS, YOUR LIVES ARE WORTH MORE THAN A FEW QUID SAVED BY TAKING THE RISK
Charred fingers
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Fox Gas 01325 308628 give peter a ring he supplies co2 gas and others
he's in your neck of the woods.
.
Drains
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I was thinking about this t'other day. Gas is often kept at 200 plus bar, which is obviously a lot, and nrmal gas hoses don't have a cat's chance in hell of staying in one piece. However... the hydraulics I often work with can operate at over 400bar, and admittedly on test rigs we do take the precautions of having protective screens in the way, but in normal circumstances, hydraulicsc are open to the world, though inspected for condition. So the obvious answer is, if you want to swap gas from cylinder to cylinder, USE THE RIGHT EQUIPMENT!
Poprivet, glad you're more or less ok, and hope your broken bits get well soon!
Poprivet, glad you're more or less ok, and hope your broken bits get well soon!
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Ahhhh but and I know I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but hey, liquid is pretty much incompressible, unlike gas which is essentially trying to get back to its original size (at atmosphere), so 200 bar of hydraulic oil is only going to have the same volume, unlike gas, which effectively has a huge amount more potential energy at the same bar.....
Which is why boilers are Hydraulic tested rather than pressure tested with air...
Iv been around plenty of pipes at hydraulic pressures that have burst with little more than a drench of oil and alot of swearing, wouldn't fancy a whip with compressed gas at the same pressure
...
Drains
Yeah, nah.
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I still say you should use the right equipment. If your pipes are rated properly, there's no problem. Also, hydraulic oil at 400 bar is REALLY BLEEDIN DANGEROUS!!! Just imagine a jet of oil hitting your skin at 400 bar. If the pump is still going, and there's an accumulator in the system, then there's still lots of stored energy. Admittedly, it's not sort of explosive like wot compressed gas is.
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I notice BOC sell the required decanting hose. Saw one hanging on the display rack the other day. I asked him if it was a decanting hose. Yup he says. Forty quid!!
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mate, don't forget I was an Ag Eng student, so I had plenty of the dont test injector systems with your finger etc etc etc, but your getting your flows and pressures mixed, once say a 3/8 hose bursts thats it a system thats at 400 bar simply dumps, its just like the relief valve going in the system tho an open hose is cracked at a very low pressure, a pump cannot continue to pump at pressure, just its maximum flow because the system is now open, a gear pump is high pressure low flow...
On say a damaged clutch pack its common for the entire system to lose all pressure, not because the pump cannot maintain pressure but because it cant maintain pressure at flow, its why you have to run flow and pressure checks to conclude many faults....
Accumulators are used because Nitrogen is a GAS thus allowing it to be compressed and allow damping, unlike LIQUID....
Skin injury's are normally caused by direct contact, injector systems on diesels is the classic, where people are looking for an air leek, the fracture has to be tiny so the liquid is atomized and remains at H/P.... a big leek no matter how messy is rarely dangerous for the reasons stated...
I'm not saying its not dangerous, the carcinogenic effect and potential injury to eyes are just some of the problems.....but gas and oil at the same pressures will behave in very different ways...
I wasn't getting involved with the fill from one bottle to another it might be possible, just didn't think comparing liquids to gas was not a great compairson........
Drains
Yeah, nah.
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Alright Mat. Easy!
My recent experience is with very large quantities of fluid, high volume pumps and big accumulators. I was comparing the abilities of pipes to deal with pressures, not the relative dangers of liquids and gases. That was you.
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Alright Mat. Easy!
My recent experience is with very large quantities of fluid, high volume pumps and big accumulators. I was comparing the abilities of pipes to deal with pressures, not the relative dangers of liquids and gases. That was you.
Easy always,
.....on a bottle to bottle bassis I'm sure its perfectly safe and possible (over wise how would BOC fill emm) however the moosive amount of stored energy at 200+ bar makes it worth some respect....
I actual thought the old torpedo bottle was a myth, however the boys at BOC have a proud picture of an argosheild bottle wedged under a mondeo, taken up'noth someware........hmmmm traveled the length of the car park before righting the car off, nice
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Anyone who's seen the mythbusters episode where they knock the top off a cylinder can see how dangerous a cylinder failure is!
I wouldn't want to be in the same room!
I wouldn't want to be in the same room!
pedrobedro
Man at Matalan
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When I learnt to gas weld they showed a video of an oxygen bottle laid down and the valve guillotined off. It travelled 30 feet then went through a double brick wall and was still moving. This was to show the importance of having them anchored so as not to knock them over.
In my younger days I used to manage a bar. We had a fancy matrix CO2 system running off 4 bottles with individual mini regulators and gauges for each beer and the cleaning containers with main regs and gauges on the bottles. Idea was that when one bottle emptied you could instantly switch in another. One particularly heavy night we lost pressure on the beer taps so I went to sort things out. One bottle was showing zero and I couldn't turn the valve, so I switched in a reserve. Obviously empty and already turned off thinks I so I disconnected it. Well, it generated instant fog, broke away from the wall clip, pulled out of my hand and ended up on the floor spinning round and maniacally banging and clanking. Sh** or bust, I grabbed the handle and dragged it outside. Only way outside was through the bar. Thirsty patrons though it was part of the entertainment - some kind of fog machine. Lessons for me - 1. For some reason that cylinder valve had frozen up - surely not because of the amount of beer being shifted. 2. Pub gas isn't all that innocent. Those cylinders get thrown and banged around alarmingly - usually literally chucked into a carrier under the dray wagon.
3. As for unofficial refills and bottle transfers - horrendous thought!
Treat any kind of compressed gas with the utmost respect.
Bit off topic now, but my son in law used to be a delivery driver for BOC. A big profitmaker was the bottled smells for supermarkets. Little cylinders like the Halfords welding gases but contain odours like ground coffee, newly baked bread, spicy foods, all sorts of stuff and cost a fortune.
3. As for unofficial refills and bottle transfers - horrendous thought!
Treat any kind of compressed gas with the utmost respect.
Bit off topic now, but my son in law used to be a delivery driver for BOC. A big profitmaker was the bottled smells for supermarkets. Little cylinders like the Halfords welding gases but contain odours like ground coffee, newly baked bread, spicy foods, all sorts of stuff and cost a fortune.
