CAD, why is the software so monumentally un- intuitive?

[Ged93]

Fusion 360 is not the way imo , 3D must powerful but simple , otherwise it does not make sense

I tried a lot of 3D softwares and no one of them was clear to me , I think engineers who has developed them were drunked or so .
The only one that works for real is SolidWorks , take a look online and see how damn simple it is - there are few ways to get it ... if you understand me ...

JOKING JOKING JUST JOOOOOKIIIING !!!

 

[m_c]

I've not seen any recent F360 tutorial vids, but start simple.

To create a cube, make sure you have the Design workspace selected, then click Sktech (icon to the right of the workspace selection drop box -

Then select a Plane to sketch (aka Draw) on.
This is essentially doing a 2D drawing.
Select to draw a double point rectangle -

I won't bother with a screenshot, as I'm sure you can manage to click twice to create a random rectangle on the page.

Once you've done that, click FInish Sketch-

Now select the Extrude button -

Make sure the rectangle you just drew is selected -

And you can either click and drag on the arrow, or enter the Distance to extrude.
Click OK, and you should have your first cube -

Now you have a cube, to add, say a hole, you now need to click Sketch again, and click on the surface of the cube you'd like to Sketch (aka Draw) on.
Then you essentially repeat the process of Sketch and Extrude. If you want a hole, just push the selected sketch through the solid cube, and it'll 'Cut' through the cube.

Once you have a basic cube, you can try some of the other options.
I'd suggest just sticking with the basic Sketch and Extrude functions to begin with.

The actual Hole function requires a point to create a hole. A point can either be something like an edge corner point/mid point, or it can be a point drawn in a sketch.

 

[bricol]

I *think* based on answers above it’s because I still think in 2D, I.e. Plan, front elevation, side elevations etc. Haven’t even got to the slicing bit yet.

2 hours messing with Fusion 360 and I really don’t see progress. Not often I give up on something but drawing in 3D is just alien to me. Perhaps I need to learn the principles of 3D and forget all that I know from past experience. Even trying to follow a YouTube video I can copy what the guy is doing, but I have no idea what I’m doing, or why. Which kind of means I can never do anything that isn’t laid out step by step. Not ideal.

You're not "drawing" in 3D.

Okay, sometimes you sort of do.

Don't start thinking you are going to recreate something magnificent. Start small and play with it - sketch a square, extruded up for a cube or rectangular box. A circle for a cylindrical bar. A circle in another for a tube - or make it two stage - extrude one circle, then another what when subtracted creates the same thing, a tube.

One thing - if you can in fusion (never used it) - relate everything back to origin - if you dimension things on one sketch to features on some extrusion, it works. Until you modify the original extrusion and cause unexpected things to happen in things you did afterwards.

 

[bricol]

Fusion 360 is not the way imo , 3D must powerful but simple , otherwise it does not make sense

I tried a lot of 3D softwares and no one of them was clear to me , I think engineers who has developed them were drunked or so .
The only one that works for real is SolidWorks , take a look online and see how damn simple it is - there are few ways to get it ... if you understand me ...

JOKING JOKING JUST JOOOOOKIIIING !!!

Plenty that work for real - Solidworks is just one - just might be the one that is basic/simple enough to be got from dark places on the net.

I learnt on Matra Prelude, moved to the USA in 1999 and sat in front of Solidworks until 2005-ish and had to learn it quick as I said I could already use it Then Ideas, and now NX for the last 12 yrs or so.

Once you get your head around 3D CAD, which is the biggest thing, then they are all much of a muchness, just call things different names and hide things away in different menus. Once you have a clue in one system, you can ask how to get the same effect in another.

 

[DAPPH]

Learning the basics of Fusion 360 was great with the ," Lars Live " YouTube video series , having a stoke wiped it from the memory banks in the neck top computer .
I relearnt it again & little bits resurfaced now & again .

Then I got slapped with covid19 in mid Nov2019 . ( Yes 2019 ) brain about as good as a one legged man in an **** kicking contest , slowly got back into it & found it hard , brain is now like cold spaghetti flooded with olive oil ....nothing stuck .
Now that I've had my fourth covid event my head is like a brand new unused stainless steel pan scrubber . I will survive and get back in to it , there are far to many things I've got to do before I give up.

 

[Munkul]

Solidworks is the best cad software I've ever used. I got an educational license about a year ago. I'm using autocad in 2d for work now and i really don't care for it any more. Life would be so much easier with solidworks.

 

[Misterg]

Perhaps I need to learn the principles of 3D and forget all that I know from past experience.

^Definitely

Forget "drawing".

You're trying to create a virtual "lego" model of what you want to make, using the CAD tools at your disposal.

Once you've done that, the machine spits the drawings out - whatever view you want, always consistent.

If you stick with F360, there will be plenty of help available - I think the more experience you have with conventional draughting, the harder it is to break out and into the concept of 3D modelling.

 

[Hood]

Solidworks is the best cad software I've ever used. I got an educational license about a year ago. I'm using autocad in 2d for work now and i really don't care for it any more. Life would be so much easier with solidworks.

Solidworks is good, in fact it is excellent but for me Fusion is a lot better. It is not as slick as Solidworks but what makes it a winner for me is I can do the model then go to the manufacturing tab and then use it to get G Code for lathe/mill/plasma and it is all stored in one file. Solidworks required me to have a separate CAD programme as well and I had to import the model into it. Also for an assembly you needed to import parts, all that is done in the one file in Fusion. Maybe Solidworks has changed since I last used it but don't think so.

 

[Ged93]

Well yes it depends on what you are looking for , Fusion is more CNC oriented , Solidworks added a CNC-CAM application in 19-20 to generate GCodes and simulate all milling and turning operations ( more or less like MasterCam , but not such as good )

I've seen months ago a video about new features of Inventor 2021 and I was impressed on the fact that SW got all that stuff ( and even more ) in 2012 .

 

[mike os]

2hours? Expect to spend 200 hours before you are reasonably competent and 2000 hours before you are comfortable ….

 

[Screwdriver]

I think I have exhausted the abilities of my preferred design program (Sketchup) and it’s time to move on. I have tried Fusion and don’t like the interface or the workflow plus I don’t trust them not to remove even more features from the “free” version.

It is such a huge investment in time to train yourself up and once you commit to a workflow, it can be difficult to post over to another type so I want to be sure this time.

I am seriously considering Blender. Any users on here? Advantages, disadvantages? Where does it rank compared to other 3D design programs? Import export issues?

I will be using it for design, primarily for FDM but ultimately for general CAD/CAM assuming I end up with a CNC mill at some stage.

 

[ukracer]

I *think* based on answers above it’s because I still think in 2D, I.e. Plan, front elevation, side elevations etc. Haven’t even got to the slicing bit yet.

2 hours messing with Fusion 360 and I really don’t see progress. Not often I give up on something but drawing in 3D is just alien to me. Perhaps I need to learn the principles of 3D and forget all that I know from past experience. Even trying to follow a YouTube video I can copy what the guy is doing, but I have no idea what I’m doing, or why. Which kind of means I can never do anything that isn’t laid out step by step. Not ideal.

I have the same problem with fusion. And with the interface changing to the tutorials it makes like harder.

 

[ukracer]

What is it you don't understand. The programs or the concept of a printer, a slicer, and a CaD program.
That was my problem at the start....lol

Ok so it's using the software rather than knowing what to use and why.

 

[m_c]

I think I have exhausted the abilities of my preferred design program (Sketchup) and it’s time to move on. I have tried Fusion and don’t like the interface or the workflow plus I don’t trust them not to remove even more features from the “free” version.

It is such a huge investment in time to train yourself up and once you commit to a workflow, it can be difficult to post over to another type so I want to be sure this time.

I am seriously considering Blender. Any users on here? Advantages, disadvantages? Where does it rank compared to other 3D design programs? Import export issues?

I will be using it for design, primarily for FDM but ultimately for general CAD/CAM assuming I end up with a CNC mill at some stage.

Blender is a 3D sculpting/modelling program. It's not meant for engineering type designing.

Once you learn something like F360, the skills are mostly transferable to other parametric modelling programs as they follow the same designing principles, it's just the specifics of the tools that change, so it's not that hard to move between programs.

 

[Munkul]

2hours? Expect to spend 200 hours before you are reasonably competent and 2000 hours before you are comfortable ….

I'd say this is true...
...For Autocad, certainly... for a program that literally just draws lines, I've been at it full time for a month or two now and I still don't understand some of it Never mind Plant3D for drawing P&IDs, I absolutely despise it.

3D must powerful but simple , otherwise it does not make sense

This is absolutely true!
This is why Solidworks is the best software I've ever used. I'm sure Fusion and some other packages are good too, but I've never used them. Just Autocad 2D/3D, Prodesktop, and Cobalt (years ago)

Draw shapes the way you think they should be drawn. Then pull those shapes into drawing sheets. Easy. That's how it should be. Every function does what you think it should do. And has all the complicated stuff in the background.

"parametric modelling" is a buzzword that actually means something really useful. The dimensions should drive the model, not the other way around.

 

[Hood]

....

Once you learn something like F360, the skills are mostly transferable to other parametric modelling programs as they follow the same designing principles, it's just the specifics of the tools that change, so it's not that hard to move between programs.

That is where I stand, I used SolidWorks for years, also used GeoMagic/Cubify and a few others and they were similar but different but the difference was mainly in the tool icons. Fusion took a week or two to understand but again very similar so not much of a learning curve. The biggest change for me going to fusion was understanding how to use components rather than bodies, when you understand that it makes the world of difference and makes it very powerful. Great thing is like I said earlier, it is all in the one programme and one file. Make changes to the model in Design and the changes are also copied to Manufacture. You can flip between the two spaces at will.

Here is a short vid showing the process for plasma of going from a model in design, changing to manufacture, arranging for plasma and getting the code. You can flip back to the model in design and it shows it as drawn, flip back to manufacture and it shows it as it will be for cutting.

 

[Domdom]

I've not seen any recent F360 tutorial vids, but start simple.

To create a cube, make sure you have the Design workspace selected, then click Sktech (icon to the right of the workspace selection drop box -
View attachment 347998

Then select a Plane to sketch (aka Draw) on.
This is essentially doing a 2D drawing.
Select to draw a double point rectangle -
View attachment 347999
I won't bother with a screenshot, as I'm sure you can manage to click twice to create a random rectangle on the page.

Once you've done that, click FInish Sketch-
View attachment 348000
Now select the Extrude button -
View attachment 348001

Make sure the rectangle you just drew is selected -
View attachment 348002
And you can either click and drag on the arrow, or enter the Distance to extrude.
Click OK, and you should have your first cube -
View attachment 348003

Now you have a cube, to add, say a hole, you now need to click Sketch again, and click on the surface of the cube you'd like to Sketch (aka Draw) on.
Then you essentially repeat the process of Sketch and Extrude. If you want a hole, just push the selected sketch through the solid cube, and it'll 'Cut' through the cube.

Once you have a basic cube, you can try some of the other options.
I'd suggest just sticking with the basic Sketch and Extrude functions to begin with.

The actual Hole function requires a point to create a hole. A point can either be something like an edge corner point/mid point, or it can be a point drawn in a sketch.

Aha!! Now a penny has just dropped. See, I said I was a thicko

Right, one has to start with a lump of material and then remove the bits that are not needed. Just like machining, not drawing. This is starting to make more sense now. Thanks for this, a small explanation but one which made sense.

 

[cr500dom]

Aha!! Now a penny has just dropped. See, I said I was a thicko

Right, one has to start with a lump of material and then remove the bits that are not needed. Just like machining, not drawing. This is starting to make more sense now. Thanks for this, a small explanation but one which made sense.

Not really no, you’ve still missed the point.
You can model like that, and it’s useful for machining models of complex castings.
But you need to learn to construct the geometry

 

[ajlelectronics]

It sounds very much like my journey into 3D CAD. I tried them all and found them totally illogical and incomprehensible. I was certainly not going to sit in front of a wannabe TV star on Youtu.be to be able to create simple stuff and there appears to be a total lack of written content for most of these packages.

Eventually I tried Design Spark Mechanical. It seemed that I was able to understand the basics far better than any other package. It is far from perfect, threads for instance I have yet to get to grips with. However as a general "all rounder" it seems to suit me. Once again though, all the "help" files are nothing of the sort and all that can be found are useless video clips. It's almost as if nobody can read the written word any more! No doubt it is all to do with money generation though, rather than information.

 

[ukracer]

I'd say this is true...
...For Autocad, certainly... for a program that literally just draws lines, I've been at it full time for a month or two now and I still don't understand some of it Never mind Plant3D for drawing P&IDs, I absolutely despise it.

This is absolutely true!
This is why Solidworks is the best software I've ever used. I'm sure Fusion and some other packages are good too, but I've never used them. Just Autocad 2D/3D, Prodesktop, and Cobalt (years ago)

Draw shapes the way you think they should be drawn. Then pull those shapes into drawing sheets. Easy. That's how it should be. Every function does what you think it should do. And has all the complicated stuff in the background.

"parametric modelling" is a buzzword that actually means something really useful. The dimensions should drive the model, not the other way around.

I think I understand that but my biggest problem is that I can draw in 2D and it makes sense.
But start to draw in 3D and adding sketch to an existing model and boom ...nothing does what you expect it to do.

I will try and screen record what I mean when I get time.