Interesting discussion, I saw a documentary the other day about a Norweigen project to create power by osmosis, using salt and fresh water. The principle looked simple enough and they were promoting it as 'the way forward', although, as with wind turbines i'm not sure if the potential energy created would realistically outweigh the energy used to make them (in a sensible time frame).
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Drains
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Well I dunno Mike. I just hit things with hammers, but it's a good question. They're not cheap, that's for sure.
I believe it's common for the manufacturers to keep ownership and lease them, also providing full maintenance and repair cover - at least I think that's Enercon's model.
Enercon are an interesting company - I don't know too much about them, but I've been told their founder/owner (no shareholders, it's all his, and he's got 10,000 employees), does it different to everybody else. He's an engineer with a talent for employing good people who can do all the other stuff. He won't do drive systems, he won't do offshore. In other words he takes the easy direct route to solving the problem without getting involved in complicated shenanigans.
My lot are doing a hydraulic drive system (none of the other bits, so I know even less about them). It's a fraction of the size of an equivalent gearbox, so far less weight, accompanying material expense, easier handling etc. Its application to wind turbines is based on the concept of infinite adjustment of input/output torque and speed, and tiny system losses, so a turbine can be constantly synched with the grid (no fancy massive inverters required, no fancy massive gearboxes either), and run at very low windspeeds, where other types of turbine would have to stop generating.
They're (intended to be) far cheaper than equivalent power gearboxes, and in theory need less maintenance, although it remains an R and D project, though at an advanced stage. It's pretty cutting edge stuff, and we are relying on some reverse engineering - or more accurately re-engineering of quite difficult engineering used by other manufacturers. No patent-breaking going on as we're doing things differently - still a lot to learn though.
If you're interested - the drive system consists of a pump driven by the rotor, which drives motors driving generators. The Motors are fairly straightforward in that they have a series of pistons in a rotary pattern around a crankshaft. (it's the digital valving which is the fancy stuff)
The pump is something else though. The 1.5Mw test pump is under 2m diameter with cylinder blocks around the circumference, each housing cylinder, piston and valve (actually a few sets in each block). The rotor has nothing on it but a ring cam, so as it turns, the pistons on the outside get pushed in and out.
It's the opposite of this Hagglunds machine (typically used for driving things like rock crushers and that), where the cam is on the outside and the pistons are housed in the rotor.
To increase capacity we can basically increase the length of the machine by adding more series of ring cams and blocks.
I know you didn't ask for a lecture Mike, but I thought you might be interested.
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sounds fascinating to me...
i often try to think with this sorta thing a bit like mr dyson did.
While everyone is chasing the improvement of a certain technology in one direction, can a completely different approach to the same thing work better?
Unfortunately, I am yet to have my money making epiphany... I'm sure itll happen...
i often try to think with this sorta thing a bit like mr dyson did.
While everyone is chasing the improvement of a certain technology in one direction, can a completely different approach to the same thing work better?
Unfortunately, I am yet to have my money making epiphany... I'm sure itll happen...
That`s how the old Fraser Mono-Radial pumps were built.As were the original pumps in the Pearson pressbrakes.They didn`t use seperate cylinders they were bored out the solid.
So,nothing new there then?
Well,maybe the size of them.
Drains
Yeah, nah.
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That`s how the old Fraser Mono-Radial pumps were built.As were the original pumps in the Pearson pressbrakes.They didn`t use seperate cylinders they were bored out the solid.
So,nothing new there then?
Well,maybe the size of them.
Well I never. You've a mine of knowledge there Mark. No, the clever bit is the digitally controlled valves. All the lumpy stuff has, as you say, been done before
Hang on - Luke's about to put it rather better...
Luke
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The clever bit is in the commutation of the electronic valve blocks, for both motoring and generating applications. Having had a look at Mr Drains' company website, I was pretty impressed with the technology, as once the finesse of the valve design is there, the power of the system comes from the software driving it - making it a very flexible system.
Edit: Oops, sorry Drains, posted at the same time.
Edit: Oops, sorry Drains, posted at the same time.
Drains
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I wasn`t trying to take anything away from Artemis,Simon,I know they are a research establishment so obviously had to be doing something new.
Wonder if there will be much of a culture shock when Mits step in.Smaller/bigger hammer for you?
Mark.
Don't worry Mark, I wasn't getting the wrong end of the stick. I don't know what's going to happen now with MHI. I could be out on my ear, then again, things could get exciting. Time to brush up the CV I reckon, could be all sorts of opportunities.
I don`t think any problems will arise at the beginning with MHI,Simon.
I would be more worried for the future,for as you know things change,nothing is forever and big companies pull the plug rather sharpish.We`ve all seen the gaps left in Scotland from all the multinational electronic companies going.
I`m meaning like five - ten years down the line when technology changes or goverment finally realises that wind power is not cost effective.
Although being a research based company you are probably spread across a range of diverse projects.
Maybe I`m just too old and too cynical.
Mark.
I would be more worried for the future,for as you know things change,nothing is forever and big companies pull the plug rather sharpish.We`ve all seen the gaps left in Scotland from all the multinational electronic companies going.
I`m meaning like five - ten years down the line when technology changes or goverment finally realises that wind power is not cost effective.
Although being a research based company you are probably spread across a range of diverse projects.
Maybe I`m just too old and too cynical.
Mark.
Drains
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I'm sure you're right Mark. Not all of us have smiley faces at Artemis, but the shareholders couldn't resist becoming millionaires (or paying off their mortgages in the case of some of the engineers). Being a recent hiring I didn't have any share options, unfortunately. I think they've sold out to the devil, and I'm not saying that lightly - it's a little fish and big sharks thing....
What MHI have bought, apart from the company, is the technology - the patents - which can be used in all sorts of drive systems - wind turbines, pumps, cars, trucks, railway locos, suspension systems, all sorts. They don't need Artemis to continue the development of that, however there are benefits right now - there's the specialist knowledge of the engineers, but there are plenty of clever people in Japan too; also that because Artemis is small and has it's own way of working, it is incredibly financially effective compared with the R and D departments of a typical big corporation. There's no fear of failure, no reluctance to take responsibility and have a go. It's very refreshing. Trouble is, if MHI don't recognise and nurture that, with appropriate management, then it won't matter as the benefits will be lost. I'm not criticising MHI (I'm not in a position to know what they're like), but it's possible that as a corporation, they won't understand even the concept of the way Artemis is run.
What MHI have bought, apart from the company, is the technology - the patents - which can be used in all sorts of drive systems - wind turbines, pumps, cars, trucks, railway locos, suspension systems, all sorts. They don't need Artemis to continue the development of that, however there are benefits right now - there's the specialist knowledge of the engineers, but there are plenty of clever people in Japan too; also that because Artemis is small and has it's own way of working, it is incredibly financially effective compared with the R and D departments of a typical big corporation. There's no fear of failure, no reluctance to take responsibility and have a go. It's very refreshing. Trouble is, if MHI don't recognise and nurture that, with appropriate management, then it won't matter as the benefits will be lost. I'm not criticising MHI (I'm not in a position to know what they're like), but it's possible that as a corporation, they won't understand even the concept of the way Artemis is run.
