Building regs steel joists

[fizzy]

Thinking of buying an old Church or Chapel to convert. Upstairs areas would basically be a mezzanine floor.
I would like exposed beams etc - going for the steampunk look
But apparently steel beams have to be encased for fire protection? What about wooden beams? They are always on show. I would have thought a steel beam is more fire resistant than wood?
And mezzanine floors in warehouses are also exposed steelwork.

 

[Cuthy246]

Thinking of buying an old Church or Chapel to convert. Upstairs areas would basically be a mezzanine floor.
I would like exposed beams etc - going for the steampunk look
But apparently steel beams have to be encased for fire protection? What about wooden beams? They are always on show. I would have thought a steel beam is more fire resistant than wood?
And mezzanine floors in warehouses are also exposed steelwork.

Structurally speaking wood beams are more resistant to fire. The outside burns but the interior retains its strength, steel loses its resistance with heat hence the need for encapsulation. Warehouses/ work buildings fall under the non domestic regs which are not as stringent.

 

[voipio]

Have the real fireproofed encased RSJs (or wooden beams) slightly inboard of the upper floor edges, then put non load-bearing faux girders so that they're visible.

 

[fizzy]

Are there concrete beams that do the job? Max unsupported length I am hoping for is 20 feet.

 

[addjunkie]

Theres been a couple done round here where they were not even allowed to attatch anything to the walls, so upstairs is basically a steel platform.

Seldom do these things run smoothly or cheaply!

 

[gaz1]

im sending you something via pm @fizzy

 

[fizzy]

Theres been a couple done round here where they were not even allowed to attatch anything to the walls, so upstairs is basically a steel platform.

Seldom do these things run smoothly or cheaply!

Wales is over run with big old chapels and churches. Most aren't even listed. I would like to preserve as much as possible though.

 

[gaz1]

what ive shown you is a proper church thats been changed into flats

it has all of the planning info and also supporting evidence something you will need to consider if going that way

 

[johnik]

In a previous life i worked for a co that did ground investigation for buildings etc, we went to a chapel that the new owner wanted to convert like you do, we had to see what was under the suspended ? stone floor, beneath a foot of water were several coffins
the cost of removing and re-burial of said coffins put the owner off the conversion, something else to look out for.

 

[vw-al]

I’m sure you can get a range of intumescent paints that meet the building regs, giving different levels of protection between 30 min to 120 min. I think the level of protection required is dictated by building height and if there is a basement, it should all be in the building regs

 

[Cuthy246]

Are there concrete beams that do the job? Max unsupported length I am hoping for is 20 feet.

Unlikely to find an off the shelf pre stressed concrete beam for a span that size. Go steel for that span, concrete can be done (cast in situ) but then you are looking at pages and pages (and the additional cost) of calculations by a structural engineer. Not to mention the additional construction time and forwork needed. A steel beam is much simpler to calculate and install.

 

[arther dailey]

In a previous life i worked for a co that did ground investigation for buildings etc, we went to a chapel that the new owner wanted to convert like you do, we had to see what was under the suspended ? stone floor, beneath a foot of water were several coffins
the cost of removing and re-burial of said coffins put the owner off the conversion, something else to look out for.

This is where the expression stinking rich comes from , along the time when graves were robbed so the corpse could be sold the rich though I am not having that and paid tidy sums to be buried in the church , a lot of the time it was just under the slabs , so after a little while the stench would fill the church ......hence the stinking rich.

 

[nickk]

Last year I fabricated a steel frame for a 2 storey restaurant,the steel was just galvanised and exposed externally and internally,the restaurant has been open 4 months now,this is a small building where you can escape quickly in the event of fire,maybe a criteria?

 

[mike os]

You really need to talk to a structural engineer .. there are far too many variables to come to any meaningful decision

 

[addjunkie]

You really need to talk to a structural engineer .. there are far too many variables to come to any meaningful decision

And what he says will change depending on the building your looking at.

 

[brightspark]

I’m sure you can get a range of intumescent paints that meet the building regs, giving different levels of protection between 30 min to 120 min. I think the level of protection required is dictated by building height and if there is a basement, it should all be in the building regs

worked on some 3 story flats with a ground floor carpark underneath .all the steelwork frame was painted with it

 

[CornishPete]

I'm just doing an extension with an exposed central steel pillar, coated with fire resistant (intumescent?) Paint, and did one two years back with OSB instead of an plasterboard. Was coated with fire resistant varnish of some kind. Had to provide the certificate that came with the varnish for building regs, but that's all.

 

[brightspark]

I'm just doing an extension with an exposed central steel pillar, coated with fire resistant (intumescent?) Paint, and did one two years back with OSB instead of an plasterboard. Was coated with fire resistant varnish of some kind. Had to provide the certificate that came with the varnish for building regs, but that's all.

ive seen that varnish used .the painter was cursing it as it was a pig to put a few coats on

 

[Screwdriver]

Steel also conducts heat, retains heat (high specific heat capacity) and an interesting factlet: steel will eventually rise to whatever temperature of flame it is exposed to. Notwithstanding heat loss to radiation etc. that means a bic lighter could conceivably turn a steel beam red hot (if it had enough gas).

So my guess is that steel exposed to a flame is a darned site more dangerous from a structural perspective (warping, expanding, bending) than a big chunk of wood which will char and eventually give way, typically once the building is long gone anyway.

 

[johnik]

This is where the expression stinking rich comes from , along the time when graves were robbed so the corpse could be sold the rich though I am not having that and paid tidy sums to be buried in the church , a lot of the time it was just under the slabs , so after a little while the stench would fill the church ......hence the stinking rich.

every day is a skool day as they say