Building a Trike

[BoatBuilderDave]

The plan is to build a recumbent first, then the more complex trike, an atomic zombie design.

I only have a 240v 13A supply. (I could at some expense, get a 20A connection)

The steel to be welded is 1.5" square section approx 1/16" (1.5mm) thick.

But for some bits I need to weld small 3/16" (4.5mm) parts. I can access both sides of these.

I am stuck between getting an MMA inverter which can do down to 20 amps or so, and 1.5 or 2mm 6013 rods.

Or getting a Mig Welder.

I've done lots or reading, and gotten lots of conflicting opinions.

1st, the guy who designs the bikes, suggests mma as described above. He has LOTS of details and videos.

Many people seem to think 1.5mm is too thin for Arc/MMA.

However I gather for MIG, off a 13A supply welding 4.5mm is out of the questions, as I will be topping out at 130amps.

I can get a clarke AT130 delivered for under €210.
To get a Mig Setup with a regulator eg clarke en 130 it looks like I'm into twice that.

The second hand market is thin in Dublin, and most stuff on ebay is pickup only (not surprising)

So, for anyone who has welded 1.5mm box section. your thoughts are welcome.

As a background, I just finished building a wooden sail boat, so I'm basically competent with my hands, but I have only had one 15 minute welding lesson with MMA, and 3.2 mm rods.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

 

[chunkolini]

You should be fine with a 130 amp mig, 150 better but you have a budget.
if you can access both sides it should not be a problem
I have built lots of bikes (contraptions?) never got round to a trike, especially a tadpole version, too much engineering for me.
One of my first welding projects was to be a recumbent. I figured build a stupid chopper first to get a feel for playing with tubes and bike frames.
Umpteen choppers and a few tallbikes later still no recumbent. Still planning my recumbent tandem though.

I would still reccomend building a lashup chopper before taking on a serious build, less hassle less stress if things dont go right and you learn a lot about bike geometry and tube mitring. Also a lot of fun.

Try this kind of thing first.

(Note the 50 shot air bomb repeater on the back of the seat).
No budget, no plans, no drawings just get vicious. A great way to learn. Then get onto the proper stuff.

Good luck. Oh pop onto the introductions section and say Hi.

 

[BoatBuilderDave]

Much appreciated, Good to know that I can get by on the 130Amp mig. But do I need to go Mig? Or can I use a low current Arc with 6013 2.0 mm rods.

I like the idea of arc, less machine to go wrong, wire feed, wire liner, spatter on the nozzle. Less stuff to set. Albeit probably more practice. (Practice is comparatively cheap)

And a decent Mig box looks like it costs twice what a decent arc inverter costs.

Thanks

Dave

ps- I like the air bomb repeater.

You should be fine with a 130 amp mig, 150 better but you have a budget.
if you can access both sides it should not be a problem
I have built lots of bikes (contraptions?) never got round to a trike, especially a tadpole version, too much engineering for me.
One of my first welding projects was to be a recumbent. I figured build a stupid chopper first to get a feel for playing with tubes and bike frames.
Umpteen choppers and a few tallbikes later still no recumbent. Still planning my recumbent tandem though.

I would still reccomend building a lashup chopper before taking on a serious build, less hassle less stress if things dont go right and you learn a lot about bike geometry and tube mitring. Also a lot of fun.

Try this kind of thing first.
View attachment 27113
(Note the 50 shot air bomb repeater on the back of the seat).
No budget, no plans, no drawings just get vicious. A great way to learn. Then get onto the proper stuff.

Good luck. Oh pop onto the introductions section and say Hi.

 

[chunkolini]

My mate Tallmartin from Manchester builds his bikes usign an arc welder, but I would go for Mig everytime.
Lots of nooks and crannies in bike frames and some of the frame tubes are very thin. laces like welding a tube onto a bottom bracket, ie thin to thick could be a massive pain with arc.

 

[Lanzecki]

I'd go for Mig everytime.

I've got both type of welder and I'll reach for the mig every time. If you want to weld thicker plate just V the parts you want to join. For Bike frames MIG'll be much better.

ARC will do everything you want (but will as Chunko says struggle on thin stuff). It's also a messier form of welding that takes longer to tidy up.

If you do go for ARC get an invertor not a buzz box. I have a buzzbox and while it's good enough my TIG invertor ARC welds so much better and is easier to strike up.

But then again an invertor will be roughly the same price as a MIG welder.

Mig's not cheap and takes some setting up, but once done properly you'll rarely need to change the settings.

Try not to use the disposable bottles though. They never seem to give enough gas flow for me.

Ohh, Where are you welding? Outside or a draft free inside? That will make a difference. Almost any draft will blow the MIG gas away from the weld and cause contamination. ARC is better at resisting drafts.

I think I'm confusing the situation

 

[fully floating]

Have you checked out done deal for a MIG welder they do come up there regular, also a few company's selling new Chinese stuff, you should be able to get a 16amp supply by consulting an electrician, I run a 220 amp MIG off my household supply with a 16amp socket so it is possible, you can also get rent free gas from wholesale welding supplies not cheap but cheaper than disposable, they also stock a few reasonable MIG welder Google them they have a website and are also in Dublin so shouldn't be to bad for you to go take a look

 

[Lanzecki]

A 130 would be fine. I have a Clarke 130TE that's done the job for years. Occasionally I have to do multipass but he's building bikes and the like. 1.5mm as stated above.

Dublin should have gas suppliers all over the place.

I get gas from BOC as it's the best price I could find locally. But there is a annual charge as well. Still if you do any welding it's cheaper then disposable bottles and you know when it's getting low.

 

[BoatBuilderDave]

I will be welding out of doors.

Many thanks guys,

So... I will be welding out of doors. In a back garden, quite sheltered, but outside nonetheless.

My shed is primarily used for woodwork. Lots of wood dust and shavings in every crevice would make life interesting for indoors welding. Opps why is there smoke all over the place?

So is Gasless Mig any better than just Stick welding with 1.6mm or 2mm 6013 rods?

Thanks
Dave

 

[Lanzecki]

If you are worried about drafts Just go ARC welding. Much less problems with wind then.

It'll be cheaper to buy and run, and no (little) danger of problems with drafts.

 

[BoatBuilderDave]

Many thanks

I got a second hand PICO 140 Tig/Arc welder.

I've been practising.

At first I could break welds apart with my hands.

Now I can but weld 2mm thick strips of steel, and then hammer them into pretzels without the weld breaking.

Using 6013 2.5mm electrodes.

Also tried welding 2.5mm T jointed to 6mm. Again, at first hopeless. Lots of reading & watching the vids from here, hobart, miller etc and now I can beat on the joint with a lump hammer till I get tired without breaking the weld.

Few marks for artistic merit just yet.

All my scrap is rusty & painted, so I spend 10 minutes cleaning it with flap wheels for every 1 minute practising welding. Going to get better scrap this weekend.

D

 

[Lanzecki]

Pictures!!!!

Sounds good Dave. Practice practice. Once ya welds are looking good you don't need to grind them.

But we do need pictures.