Boxford CSB to Bantam Mk1 - is it an upgrade?

[Beanwood]

As per title really.

I have a CSB, and it's completely usable.

Just seen a Bantam Mk1 locally, that has a rusty toolpost, and possibly some rust on the ways. It's 3 phase (So the usual consideration of is the motor 240V capable...). I'm going to lok at it tomorrow, so will know more then.

The thing I'm frustrate dby on the CSB is the through spindle capacity - I turn mostly smaller bar - sub 30mm, but even that's too much for the CSB bore. The other thing I would like is speed changes through levers rather than belt change. (Currently have a single phase, so no VFD). I THINK the Bantam offers that.

I have just bought the QCTP for the CSB - don't know if it will fit the Bantam....

Cost of actual lathe change is likely to be minimal, as I would hope to sell the CSB and recover most of the costs (we're talking sub £500)
But there may be 'fun' (Dismantling required) moving the new lathe from it's current home.

Any thoughts please?

 

[RobCox]

If you don't buy it, you'll never know and always be left wondering...

 

[sako243]

You can make smaller parts on a bigger lathe (it's a faff but you can do it) but you can't make bigger parts on a smaller lathe.

 

[BrokenBiker]

If you don't buy it, you'll never know and always be left wondering...

Best sales pitch for something you arent even selling, thats incredible

 

[indykid]

A Bantam isn't a big lathe but I'd expect it'll be a fair step up from the CSB. Check what change gears it comes with - they're not a fortune, but if it's missing most of them, it'd make a cheap lathe quite pricy to tool up. The thin 4 jaw would be a big bonus too and again, spendy to buy on its own. The Bantam bed's hardened so the ways should clean up provided the corrosion isn't too well developed.

If it's a 1600, it's a 2 speed motor which isn't easy to run on a VFD, but 3 phase motors are easy enough to come by in the right pattern. The best bit is you've got another lathe so you can mod any bits you need to.

The mk1 Bantam has a 1" spindle bore, the mk2 has a bigger spindle bore, but still only 1 1/8"

 

[Wedg1e]

You can always put a riser block under the QCTP if it won't go high enough to get you on centre on the Bantam... you'd struggle to get a bigger toolpost lower, though.

 

[Agroshield]

There are Bantam manuals aplenty online so perusing one of those, as well as the lathes.co.uk page for the model would educate you on the fine points of its specification.

That would allow you to know if the actual one you are seeing is right for you - perhaps that one is not, but a different Bantam might be.

As above, change gears are an important part of what makes a good deal (3D printed ones are an option).

The accessories for the machine are expensive. D1-3 chucks are probably 20% more than D1-4 and steadies are overpriced. It would be useful to get the spindle bush with any machine you buy as sourcing one later is difficult.

Have you considered other workholding possiblities (like using a steady) that do not necessitate poking the stock through the spindle? On a Bantam, it is the bore of the standard 5" 3-jaw chuck that restricts capacity rather than the bore of the spindle (4 jaw is OK and KC15 chuck is OK).

 

[indykid]

It would be useful to get the spindle bush with any machine you buy as sourcing one later is difficult.

What do you use yours for?

I made one for mine thinking I might need one but I've only ever used it for checking the straightness of a taper on a drill arbor as it was a convenient way to hold it rigidly. The only thing I can think is if you need every last squeak of bed length turning between centres, otherwise, I'd turn a centre on a bit of bar in the chuck so you know it's dead true.

 

[Agroshield]

What do you use yours for?

It goes in the spindle regularly every February 29th.

Occasionally for a centre; sometimes for a wood-turning pronged-centre; once for a boring head; twice for a taper shank drill.

It is very possible to manage without it, but if it is there it is no use to someone else and you would only get one chance to grab it when collecting the machine.

 

[Beanwood]

Given forum wisdom I shall go and see it in person to assess what state it is in, and how bad the access really is.
I had no idea about a spindle bush @Agroshield - I will now have to track down images so I know what to look for

 

[Seadog]

I'd swap. Change wheels and steadies are nice have.
A faceplate, too.

I own an AUD, btw.

 

[Martin-Sy]

I cannot add much to what has already been said but FWIW
1) Try to see and hear it running. These are now quite old and the straight cut gears in the headstock become noisy when worn.
2) The 2 speed motor (if it has one) can be run OK on a vfd provided you get a 230V in 380V out type. A friend has just done this on a Bridgeport with 2 speed motor. VFD was circa £80.
Just remember that with a VFD you must not switch speeds when its running.
3) The apron control is nice but many get worn and sloppy. Easy to fix tho.

I've had a Mk1 Bantam since 1988 btw!

 

[Beanwood]

Well that dream was short lived. I was supposed to go see it after 4 today, but on asking for the precise address was informed someone else would be looking at it before me. I’ve since been ghosted (ah the joys of FBMP)
Probably for the best ~ I don’t really need another project right now.
(Although poring over the poor photos it was a 1600, and there was a QCTP in the bottom drawer…)

 

[Beanwood]

There's news!!
It seems I hadn't been ghosted at all - the guy was just knackered after a 15 hour shift and couldn't be bothered to reply - which in some ways is fair enough.
Been to look at it this evening - and I LIKE it! It's a 1600, but I couldn't see it running as the VFD has been purloined by someone for a different project...
It has some very rusty parts (Mainly the saddle, and the ways near that). and two strange 'features' - I couldn't move the saddle using the big handwheel, or the crossslide using the crosslide handle. Both are VERY rusty, but I'm thinking I'm missing some sort of locking mechanism..
Anyway, that is not the killer. That is access - and it's probably going to stop me.
It's in a shed, 12 inches above the lawn. How to move it - and hot to get it down 12"
Lawn has just been relaid, so owners not keen on ruining that...
Once down to lawn level, there's a 5" decking step up that needs to be overcome, followed by 12' of decking, and a 5" step down, followed 36" later by another 5" drop. Then we're onto solid loosely laid slabs before the narrow gateway - which should just about fit widthways - but it's close!

Thoughts please my fellow forumers - this deal is too good to let go, but I can't see how to lift 500kg or so level - an engine crane would lift it up, but not 'onto' or 'off' a step. Is there something I can hire?

Heck - I'd pay someone £500 to move it....

 

[Beanwood]

Picture of the saddle rust...

Apparently there has never been 'water ingress' but as it's been unused for 5 years, that's a LOT of flash rusting...

 

[Pete.]

Buy 3 sheets of 18mm ply, get hold of a pallet truck and a sturdy blue pallet. Lay down the ply, pallet on top outside the shed door and drag the lathe out using 3-4 sturdy guys. Strap the lathe to the pallet, roll it on the ply with the pallet truck just bunny-hopping the ply over and rolling it it from sheet to sheet. Up the 5" step by laying 2 ply sheets one on top of the other as a ramp. Down the other side the same way but put a 3x4 under the edge in case the ply slides off.

@Dcal and I got a bantam out of a god-awful hole onto a big trailer. Along with a Bridgeport and a compressor and a big mechanical hacksaw.

 

[RobCox]

that's a LOT of flash rusting...

Fortunately thats not a critical surface so its just cosmetic.
Sometimes you have to take a chance on the machine being ok where it counts and you can't see it... if the price is right. It'll probably be a lot of work to clean everything up - it took me 6 months to strip my M300 down and get it all to the state I was happy with, but the alternative is to spend ££££.

 

[Beanwood]

Buy 3 sheets of 18mm ply, get hold of a pallet truck and a sturdy blue pallet. Lay down the ply, pallet on top outside the shed door and drag the lathe out using 3-4 sturdy guys. Strap the lathe to the pallet, roll it on the ply with the pallet truck just bunny-hopping the ply over and rolling it it from sheet to sheet. Up the 5" step by laying 2 ply sheets one on top of the other as a ramp. Down the other side the same way but put a 3x4 under the edge in case the ply slides off.

@Dcal and I got a bantam out of a god-awful hole onto a big trailer. Along with a Bridgeport and a compressor and a big mechanical hacksaw.

I'm OK with buying some 18mm ply, but I need to devise a way of getting it out of the shed (I don't have access to 3-4 sturdy men). I should also have mentioned - the gateway is 65cm, so I don't think a pallet would fit, and I'm a teeny bit worried about it toppling.

Is it mad to consider a gantry of some description made from scaffold tubes (Not that I have any yet..)? If so, is there a suitable beam trolley if so, it would keep the weight suspended so no topple risk?

 

[indykid]

There is a bed lock, but looking at that corrosion, I wouldn't be surprised if the back gib hadn't nipped up. If you're not taking it apart, clean the bed as best you can before you start trying to move the saddle.

A bantam will disassemble into (admittedly hefty) chunks, but I'd be a damn sight happier taking it out in lumps than as a oner. I'd say it all wants to come apart for cleaning and derusting in that state anyway. The headstock and gearbox are on a plain section of the bed so you'll need to spend a bit of time clocking it back in, but it's good experience and means you can adjust out any wear in the bed as much as possible.

If you're putting it in a van with an engine crane, get a front wheel drive low floor one as any height you can save will translate to reach. I bolted mine to two lengths of unistrut to make the base the full width of the van and reduce the risk of it falling over in transit.

 

[indy4x]

I delivered a Harrison M300 to a guy in Llanelli. Used an engine crane, some skates, scaffold poles and bits of 4x2 to get it into his shed that was 6" off the ground

The skates I have are home made, you're welcome to borrow them but I am an hour from Bristol