Boiler died, water everywhere. Question for the plumbers

[minimutly]

My Worcester green star 18/25 has just wet the bed.
Like a plonker I pressed the lockout reset, only to hear the fan running in water. The elcb tripped. Took the burner off, the boiler jacket was full to the burner hole. The condensate trap was full of rusty crud. The condenser was full of rusty water.
I’ve cleaned up the mess, water is off and system is draining. My plan is to refill once everything is clean to find the leak.
My question is, what’s the costs of a jacket, or the condenser matrix/heat exchanger thing? Is this worth repairing? The wife is looking for the receipts, it’s about 6 yr old...
Thanks in advance.

 

[addjunkie]

You can find any parts on here once you trudge through the search things, to get part numbers.

Secondary Heat Exchanger Final Assembly | 87161124300 | Worcester Bosch

Worcester Bosch is dedicated to delivering homes with efficient heating systems. A-rated Greenstar condensing boilers and renewable energy products.

www.worcester-bosch.co.uk

 

[GRW]

I have a Worcester (not a Combi) that's about 23-years-old.
It's been brilliant and economical, also relatively simple (no electronics!) and I'd like to keep it going for as long as possible!
I'd even consider spending quite a bit on it to resurrect it tbh (my old & shortly retired boiler guy said the new condensating "efficient" ones were a bit better on juice, but that I'd be spending lots more on repairs and replacing the whole thing in a few years).

I'm afraid I have very little faith or trust in the quality (& user-mtce) of any new appliances - & think that keeping the older ones running is a wise move.

 

[Kayos]

Oil boiler?

Find out why the condensate blocked (frozen?) Dry it out and switch it back on

I'd be very surprised if any permanent damage occured

 

[Bornfree]

I doubt it's the jacket in 6 years. Condensate drain blocked or most likely with that amount of water the secondary heat exchanger leaking.

 

[waddycall]

Did it lose system pressure before you drained it? Any chance the condensate drain could have backed up from elesewhere? I’d disconnect the condensate drain (leave the trap on), wet vacuum it out, refill and keep,an eye on the pressure for an hour or so. If you need to change the heat exchanger it’ll probably need a lot seals/ gaskets. Sounds like it’s probably going to need a motor and fan impeller whatever.
The combustion chamber base insulation will need changing (not sure what they have in those).

 

[minimutly]

Slept on this last night. Firstly, thanks for all replies, to be clear, it’s not a combi, so unable to check pressures.
I think, (without being certain yet) that the issue is with the condensate. I initially dismissed this because of the sheer amount of water. But, this boiler was fitted by a contractor for no cost to us (my daughter and children living with us qualified for a freebie). Anyway, they did the whole job quickly and mostly badly. One example, the condensate line, it leaked everywhere, including where they connected it up to the washing machine drain....
I asked MrsMm when had it last run? Tonight!. So, I think the washing machine outlet is frozen, it’s an above ground into gully outlet, not insulated.
So, I think the washing machine just pumped it’s contents back up the condensate line, hence the fluff I found in the heat exchanger, hence the sheer amount of water on the floor. This morning I will refill the system, check for leaks, check the condensate line, hopefully clean and dry out the burner....

 

[waddycall]

Slept on this last night. Firstly, thanks for all replies, to be clear, it’s not a combi, so unable to check pressures.
I think, (without being certain yet) that the issue is with the condensate. I initially dismissed this because of the sheer amount of water. But, this boiler was fitted by a contractor for no cost to us (my daughter and children living with us qualified for a freebie). Anyway, they did the whole job quickly and mostly badly. One example, the condensate line, it leaked everywhere, including where they connected it up to the washing machine drain....
I asked MrsMm when had it last run? Tonight!. So, I think the washing machine outlet is frozen, it’s an above ground into gully outlet, not insulated.
So, I think the washing machine just pumped it’s contents back up the condensate line, hence the fluff I found in the heat exchanger, hence the sheer amount of water on the floor. This morning I will refill the system, check for leaks, check the condensate line, hopefully clean and dry out the burner....

Yep, sounds feasible. If you open up the burner to dry it out make sure you don’t adjust the air damper or at least put it back where it came from. If it’s a sealed system it’ll have a pressure gauge regardless of whether or not it’s a combi. If you clean out the condensate trap fill it with water before you put it back on.

 

[minimutly]

Yep, sounds feasible. If you open up the burner to dry it out make sure you don’t adjust the air damper or at least put it back where it came from. If it’s a sealed system it’ll have a pressure gauge regardless of whether or not it’s a combi. If you clean out the condensate trap fill it with water before you put it back on.

Header tank system..
Anyway, the culprit:

This was in the vertical drain down to the gully.
Now to put it all back together...

 

[minimutly]

It’s all back together, cleaned up, running like a goodun. Found another issue the installers left me - the condensate line does an up and over where it comes out of the machine - problem is - if it needed another, is that the glued pipe was never glued, so has been leaking this acidic fluid down the back of the boiler since it was installed. I glued it.
So, now I have:
Fix the condensate line so it has a run to the drain, is insulated and glued..
Need to drop the water to add fernox
Clean/replace the jet and any filters built into the pump - do I need someone with an analyser to set this up?
Replace the oil flexi.
Anything else?

 

[waddycall]

the nozzle will need changing, the filter in the oil pump should be fine and best not disturbed. If the oil flexi is a braided one then that should be changed as they are only meant to be used for one year. If you do change it get a long life one (smooth green outer) but be careful as there are different end connections (male/female and thread size). I’d be most concerned about the combustion chamber base insulation if it has any. Not sure what is in that model of boiler but some have a ceramic blanket or a vermiculite pad that could have turned to mush. The boiler/heat exchanger are often single skin on the bottom so there’s no water to take the heat away.
The other thing that needs doing unless already done is a really thorough check of the flue ways, baffles etc and a really thorough flush out of the condensate route from the top heat exchanger to the trap.
It really does need someone with an analyser to set it up as nozzles can vary. I had a career change two years ago but prior to that I was oftec and gas safe registered boiler engineer. I service my own boiler and don’t have an analyser so use my smoke pump to check for sooting until an old colleague can pop round with his analyser.

 

[Kayos]

I'm the same as @waddycall, a career change means I no longer have my tickets

Where are you, I know an engineer I trust

 

[minimutly]

the nozzle will need changing, the filter in the oil pump should be fine and best not disturbed. If the oil flexi is a braided one then that should be changed as they are only meant to be used for one year. If you do change it get a long life one (smooth green outer) but be careful as there are different end connections (male/female and thread size). I’d be most concerned about the combustion chamber base insulation if it has any. Not sure what is in that model of boiler but some have a ceramic blanket or a vermiculite pad that could have turned to mush. The boiler/heat exchanger are often single skin on the bottom so there’s no water to take the heat away.
The other thing that needs doing unless already done is a really thorough check of the flue ways, baffles etc and a really thorough flush out of the condensate route from the top heat exchanger to the trap.
It really does need someone with an analyser to set it up as nozzles can vary. I had a career change two years ago but prior to that I was oftec and gas safe registered boiler engineer. I service my own boiler and don’t have an analyser so use my smoke pump to check for sooting until an old colleague can pop round with his analyser.

So the condensate route and trap has been thoroughly cleaned, along with the condenser and bits, also the baffles and chimney base. I’ll look up a long life oil hose, those braided ones are designed to fail imho. Never thought about the base insulation, but the boiler sits on a terrazzo tiled floor, so I’m not too concerned.
I’m between StClears and Cardigan @Kayos , but shan’t be faffing about with this until the new year, new bits will be fitted then.

 

[Morrisman]

Mine did the same thing today, but something internal has broken as it is mains water pressure spewing out. Blew the breaker, soaked the garage floor. Plumber coming tomorrow.

I went to my daughters tonight to borrow her electric radiator, to keep me warm if needed.

Three hours later she has just called me: "dad, my boiler went off and says 'error, low water pressure' "

I've just talked my non technical law student daughter through adding water to the system with the two valve link thing.... over the phone.... ....success, her heating is working again.

I'd have driven over and done it, but I'm 3 cans deep in Old Speckled Hen.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Our boiler died last week, the main heat exchanger has gone.
it was due to be replaced next year anyway so we’ve decided not to bother repairing it and put the money towards a new one. Boilers always seem to pick the most inopportune time to fail.
Fortunately we have a wood burner so at least we have a warmish house.

 

[Bornfree]

A mate of mine is a plumber and occasionally he brings me a boiler heat exchanger to repair if the customer cannot afford a new boiler. They normally go at the bottom where the return pipe connection is. The last one I did was a 50 year old trianco. Huge thing 3ft tall and 2ft square with 11/2" connections.

 

[GRW]

So the condensate route and trap has been thoroughly cleaned, along with the condenser and bits, also the baffles and chimney base. I’ll look up a long life oil hose, those braided ones are designed to fail imho. Never thought about the base insulation, but the boiler sits on a terrazzo tiled floor, so I’m not too concerned.
I’m between StClears and Cardigan @Kayos , but shan’t be faffing about with this until the new year, new bits will be fitted then.

We're in the same area MM (I live just outside St Clears) and as you know, the weather has been very cold with brief rises in temp, then it rains/sleets just in time to freeze hard into ice.
Not great conditions for any plumbing/heating kit.
My local go-to guy for the boiler for the last 20yrs is I'm told just about packing it in - I'm about to message him and find out for sure. He'd almost certainly have the green pipe etc that you'd need if he's not yet retired.

 

[minimutly]

We're in the same area MM (I live just outside St Clears) and as you know, the weather has been very cold with brief rises in temp, then it rains/sleets just in time to freeze hard into ice.
Not great conditions for any plumbing/heating kit.
My local go-to guy for the boiler for the last 20yrs is I'm told just about packing it in - I'm about to message him and find out for sure. He'd almost certainly have the green pipe etc that you'd need if he's not yet retired.

Thanks, let me know?

 

[GRW]

Thanks, let me know?

Will do. I've messaged him but no reply yet

 

[Morrisman]

The British gas guy turned up yesterday, with a huge armful of boxes. 4 hours later my boiler is alive again. Turned out a small rubber seal had failed on the tap water heat exchanger, spraying water everywhere.

I don't know if it was caused by frost, but I may box the whole unit it as it's in the garage, and I can't be doing with the external frost stat turning it on repeatedly day and night. It should stay nice and snug inside a wooden cupboard, rather than exposed in an unheated, un insulated garage.