I have a VW Karmann Ghia. In the past it has been badly restored. 3 of the rear lower panels have been replaced, but rather than butt weld them, they have use lap joints. This has caused issues (no surprise!). Lots of body filler and a big, crooked joint (no photos at moment). What is the best cure? Is it to cut out completely and replace the panels with new panels and re-weld etc? or is there a way you can cut out the bad joint and weld in a strip, or even just cut the new joint, grind back and re-weld? Any help would be appreciated.
- Thread starter mort_mort
- Start date
BrokenBiker
Member
- Messages
- 11,695
- Location
- Newport, South Wales
new panels are ultimately the 'correct' repair...but you can 100% cut a section out and re-weld it properly with butt joints and is probably the way i would attempt it first. just make sure you focus on heat control, and that includes when cutting...ive known people warp body work using a grinder to cut a section out.
MetalMonkey
Member
- Messages
- 3,375
- Location
- UK
There really is no "correct" way to repair bodywork - because everything is a compromise and everybody has different requirements and budgets and expectations on the outcome.
Arguably you can take a flat sheet of steel and with enough talent, experience and equipment make any sort of replacement panel to factory standard, but in most cases that would be hideously expensive and completely unnecessary.
If replacement panels are available, it may be an avenue worth exploring but keep in mind that a lot of panels do not fit perfectly and can be thought of as more of a rough starting point requiring a lot of work and time to get looking right.
If what you have is largely OK then it may be easier to adjust it if necessary. Some body filler will always be required, so it depends on what the end goal is.
A lot depends on the quality of the work that has been done, how well it fits and if it has been treated and protected properly.
If it is a good solid repair that will last a long time but requires a bit of filler, I'd personally take that over a repair that has been done using poor materials or with poor fitment that uses a "better" technique.
Pictures would help a lot here of course, but what I’m saying is assess the repair itself rather than getting too hung up on how it was done.
On the other hand if its a complete bodge and the filler is hiding a multitude of sins you might be best cutting it out and starting again.
The only thing I would say is make sure you have your solution and your panel or repair piece fitting 99% before you take a cutting disk to anything, as once you start removing pieces it can be very hard to get the fitment correct and everything has a tendency to move on you. The key thing is to understand what it is you want to achieve before you touch anything, otherwise its very easy to end up in a complete mess.
Arguably you can take a flat sheet of steel and with enough talent, experience and equipment make any sort of replacement panel to factory standard, but in most cases that would be hideously expensive and completely unnecessary.
If replacement panels are available, it may be an avenue worth exploring but keep in mind that a lot of panels do not fit perfectly and can be thought of as more of a rough starting point requiring a lot of work and time to get looking right.
If what you have is largely OK then it may be easier to adjust it if necessary. Some body filler will always be required, so it depends on what the end goal is.
A lot depends on the quality of the work that has been done, how well it fits and if it has been treated and protected properly.
If it is a good solid repair that will last a long time but requires a bit of filler, I'd personally take that over a repair that has been done using poor materials or with poor fitment that uses a "better" technique.
Pictures would help a lot here of course, but what I’m saying is assess the repair itself rather than getting too hung up on how it was done.
On the other hand if its a complete bodge and the filler is hiding a multitude of sins you might be best cutting it out and starting again.
The only thing I would say is make sure you have your solution and your panel or repair piece fitting 99% before you take a cutting disk to anything, as once you start removing pieces it can be very hard to get the fitment correct and everything has a tendency to move on you. The key thing is to understand what it is you want to achieve before you touch anything, otherwise its very easy to end up in a complete mess.
galooph
Forum Supporter
- Messages
- 850
- Location
- Alsager, UK
There's a 1960 Karmann Ghia restoration thread you might find interesting on allmetalshaping.com. (Disclaimer - I'm one of the admins 
)
)
frank horton
V twins are great but 4"s rule.........
- Messages
- 4,529
- Location
- Crete, Greece
If u go the new panel route make sure they fit, sometime the copy's are v bad...
This new f panel was so bad it took longer to cut n shut than fit the panel...
Time doesn't come in to it but if u can afford new panels just get em....
Take loads'a photo's.....if u have to sell, it'll pay dividends..
This new f panel was so bad it took longer to cut n shut than fit the panel...
Time doesn't come in to it but if u can afford new panels just get em....
Take loads'a photo's.....if u have to sell, it'll pay dividends..
jo1010
Member
- Messages
- 354
- Location
- West Berkshire, uk
It all depends on your wants really....sounds like you want a perfect restoration for a high value classic .....so yes get rid of the bodge but if you are cutting and shutting beware of heat distortion ( and also good access to paint and protect the rear of the welded panel...). Also consider pros and cons of tig vs mig for best results. Perfection doesn't come cheap or easy.
8ob
Member
- Messages
- 14,445
- Location
- Nescient in the vale
The oem old worn out panel press tooling ends up in the hands of the after market panel manufacturers, from then on the tooling gets worse. Back when god was a boy I restored a mk 1 escort, aftermarket panels for that were terrible.
Bob
Pigeon_Droppings2
Member
- Messages
- 6,551
- Location
- london
Hard to say without seeing pics of what they did?
Personally I'd have a go at using a slit disc to cut the lap joint and tack as you go along the cut. But you need to be careful where you cut. Also panel edges could be fun if they've lapped those too!
Personally I'd have a go at using a slit disc to cut the lap joint and tack as you go along the cut. But you need to be careful where you cut. Also panel edges could be fun if they've lapped those too!
Gareth J
Member
- Messages
- 3,733
- Location
- North Cornwall
This^
You might find that new aftermarket panels are worse quality than the existing ones, if they're still in good shape.
However, welding in a strip means potentially two joints to control shape and distortion on. If the old repair you want to fix was done without using the whole of the repair panel, you might save a load of hassle by just chopping out everything and starting again. Often people do just use the whole panel though, which leaves you in the same boat if having to extend the original metal to meet the repair panel anyway.
Good opportunity to double check fit/fitment of them too. Getting repair panels to fit inevitably a compromises something. Maybe you can do a better job then the previous.
CompoSimmonite
Member
- Messages
- 5,978
- Location
- Werrington, Staffordshire Moorlands.
If the repair panels are in the right position then I'd cut out just the overlap / distorter area and butt weld in new metal.
Dozzer
Forum Supporter
- Messages
- 665
- Location
- Essex/Suffolk border
in my Yoof, i did quite a bit of body work, and sadly the quality of panels has always been a bit hit and miss, there were some that would fit like a glove, and there were some, mainly from Maldon Auto panels that i have sent back because they were more bent than the ones i had taken off.
Learning how to fettle a new body into place is just part of the job, even had genuine OEM panels that didn't fit.
Learning how to fettle a new body into place is just part of the job, even had genuine OEM panels that didn't fit.
