Block paving advice ?

[tigler]

I'm going to build a car hard standing with a roof at the back of my house and want to use block paving. How hard is this for a total beginner ?
The one problem I want to avoid though is bl00dy Ants !! The front of the house is block paved and I can't get rid if the pesky Ants ! The pavers were laid on sand and the Ants excavate it in the joins every summer !

This hard standing will be generously sized for 2 cars so that the doors can be fully opened and allow walk between space, The roof is going to be funky, like a wave design and will cover a workshop/shed at the back of the area. The shed will sit on a concrete base.

So, how hard is this block paving ?

 

[R BEADLE]

i would do away with the block paving and put a pit in , think of the money you will save on blocks . and you can fill it with water and sling the kids in in summer . on a more serious note you can get an ant repellent that works off a battery and sends off a high frequency . who knows it might keep the neighbours cats from sh.ting all over your garden too .

 

[tigler]

Would I float the cars on a raft then ?

 

[brightspark]

shell out and give em a dose of ant powder it sorts em

 

[tigler]

Must have used 20 KG of that over the years, waste of money ! They must be immune or sumat !!

 

[brightspark]

they dont like propane flat roof burners

 

[Omniata]

Get "landscaping fabric"... Lay a thin mix of dry sand with soluble ant killer mixed in, lay the fabric then more sand and ant killer on top...
It's usually sold as greenfly killer, about £3 for a 250ml bottle, mix 1 bottle with 5 litres of water...
Get it level and lay the flags about 0.5" apart and fill with a slightly wet 2:1 sand and cement mix...

Done it a couple of times, as long as the base layer of sand is quite thin, the fabric prevents the rest of the top thicker layer blending into the soil and the ants tend to stay away...

Make sure you lay the fabric tight and well overlapped...

 

[tigler]

they dont like propane flat roof burners

Yes, I did notice they have an aversion to my propane torch

Get "landscaping fabric"... Lay a thin mix of dry sand with soluble ant killer mixed in, lay the fabric then more sand and ant killer on top...
It's usually sold as greenfly killer, about £3 for a 250ml bottle, mix 1 bottle with 5 litres of water...
Get it level and lay the flags about 0.5" apart and fill with a slightly wet 2:1 sand and cement mix...


Done it a couple of times, as long as the base layer of sand is quite thin, the fabric prevents the rest of the top thicker layer blending into the soil and the ants tend to stay away...

Make sure you lay the fabric tight and well overlapped...

Excellent, now we're getting somewhere, thanks.

Think you need one of theses little fellas

Brilliant, I'm off to the pet shop !!

 

[Omniata]

....
Excellent, now we're getting somewhere, thanks.
....

The important thing is to use a wet strong mortar mix...
Too dry and it'll draw all the poison out and won't set properly, it's a soap emulsion so will severely weaken the mix like too much plasticiser...
Too weaker mix and it will be too porous and allow too much water through washing the poison away before it settles in the sand...

Dry sand is a bit of a necessity and the fabric... The poisons, 'methrins, are similar to organo-phosphate's... If they come into contact with soil they begin to break down. But are reasonable stable in sand...
So the initial thin layer kills the ants that are left off, as well as leveling the soil, and then some remains in the layer above the fabric for long enough to drive the bleeders out long term...

After that the soil becomes so compacted and sealed that it's difficult for them to get easy access unless you leave gaping holes round the edges...

 

[pedrobedro]

My mate got ants in his kitchen so he bought one of those plug in ant repellers. When he came in they were climbing on top of it laughing at him. Nothing you do will stop them they are3 the true rulers of Earth.

 

[Spud1985]

heres a good site for paveing and the like http://www.pavingexpert.com/home.htm

its not really that hard to do

 

[brightspark]

My mate got ants in his kitchen so he bought one of those plug in ant repellers. When he came in they were climbing on top of it laughing at him. Nothing you do will stop them they are3 the true rulers of Earth.

lol they dont like propane and dont like petrol

 

[Omniata]

My mate got ants in his kitchen so he bought one of those plug in ant repellers. When he came in they were climbing on top of it laughing at him. Nothing you do will stop them they are3 the true rulers of Earth.

lol they dont like propane and dont like petrol

They don't like permethrin either...

Most ant killers are a weaker derivative, like coedine vs. morphine...
Both have the same basic structure but one is a hell of a lot stronger...

Used properly they will avoid at all costs, basically if it remains resident in the soil/sand at low levels and as it's in a soap emulsion, it won't necessarily kill the mobile ones but it will soak into and kill the ungerminated grubs, thus preventing the colony populating itself...
If there's only one queen it will eventually get to her as they try to recycle the dead grubs as food...

 

[Dune]

The other way would be to lay a 100mm thick reinforced concrete slab (A393 mesh top and bottom leaving 30mm cover). Then lay your block on top of that with minimal sand. The sand would only be to level out. To seal the block you can brush a dry mix of sand and cement into the voids and use a watering can to hydrate.

 

[pidgeon chit welder]

Borax powder is a good ant killer but like all of the stuff usd for it they wash out so the best thing is not to give any spaces for the ants to inhabit .

My blocks were laid on 300 mm crushed compacted rubble with a crushed 15 mm limestone topping ...watered a bit ,when hit with vibrating plate it was almost glossy when compacted. I hired the plate for a week and also did the lawn a couple of times with it.

Set the edge blocks on 150 mm of concrete to be at finished height of one block plus 6 mm Then five days later I raked & screeded 1/4 inch of fine dry sand and cement powder mix over it and laid the blocks on top , when all was laid I spray hosed the lot and put the vibrating plate over it taking care to just miss the edges .

A couple of days when it was a dry day later I used a mix of dry silver ( Kiddies play sand ) and OPC at 3 to 1 and swept it across the blocks to fill in any gaps , again I sprayed the blocks to wash it fully in and set it .

That lot was able to take a transit tipper truck without any depression of the surface and we never got any ants .

Keeping the edges fairly wet will stop ants nesting down the edges and under the slab.

.

 

[Agroshield]

The other way would be to lay a 100mm thick reinforced concrete slab (A393 mesh top and bottom leaving 30mm cover).

That would be the A393 mesh that's made up of two layers of 10mm wires would it? Hence your concept of top and bottom is spurious as with the cover you quote, the sheets are touching. And when an outdoor slab is built on the ground, with the possibility of (salt) water from above, surely 30mm cover is too little?

 

[Shox Dr]

You have no choice but to lay them on sand, DONT bother laying them on a dry mix the ants will still make a home. You'll never stop ants from making their home in the sand so long as they can get in there. So...

Lay the blocks as usual filling in the joints with Kiln sand and vibrate down, THEN seal it with a Block paving sealer. This will do two things, Stops the ants, and stop the VU light from bleaching the blocks. It will require further applications, time dependant on use and prevailing weather. I've done the above to block paving I laid 10+ yrs ago and the little devils have never managed to get in.

 

[Dune]

That would be the A393 mesh that's made up of two layers of 10mm wires would it? Hence your concept of top and bottom is spurious as with the cover you quote, the sheets are touching. And when an outdoor slab is built on the ground, with the possibility of (salt) water from above, surely 30mm cover is too little?

Quite right well spotted typo there on the thickness of the slab.

30mm cover is more than enough to prevent spalling through rust. With a good C30 mix you could use 20mm without problem but 30 allows for deviations of cover. One of the most harsh environments for concrete is dock works and you only need a nominal 50mm cover.

The main problem concerning deterioration of concrete is water content. Too much and the unused water within the mix will start to corrode the rebar before any sulphates get the chance to make their way through the cover. Also the chemical composition of concrete prevents rebar from rusting.

One thing to consider then placing mesh in concrete is preventing surface cracking. If the rebar is too deep in the mix youll get surface cracking.