Bike Electrics Honda 1100 Pan European

[Robotstar5]

Is this a UK or US market bike? If its a US one there may well be a relay for daytime running lights, which comes on with ignition, and this may have been bodged or removed at some time, and might be causing problem.

Or is it an ex-police bike?, it would have had "runlok" which allows you to remove the keys and leave the engine running.

 

[chunkolini]

Not US or ex plod.
I have just looked on The Bay of Fleas for ST1100 relays and there are loads of them.
eg item no 350406140453
Says they are 'four pin relays' are they multi function thingys or what?
Ok that is as clear as mud. Is a four pin relay a standard fitting that can be used for different jobs, any clearer?
On my BM you could swap them around merrily.
I am loathe to start taking the bike to bits to try things as it looks like a PITA getting behind the dash, I have ordered a pair of bulbs, I figure get hold of a cheap relay to try both at once.
Edit, found a four pin relay for a fiver on the bay so we will give it a go.

Chunko'.

 

[edzt]

http://www.st-owners.com/

Have look on here

 

[Ducati]

Not US or ex plod.
I have just looked on The Bay of Fleas for ST1100 relays and there are loads of them.
eg item no 350406140453
Says they are 'four pin relays' are they multi function thingys or what?
Ok that is as clear as mud. Is a four pin relay a standard fitting that can be used for different jobs, any clearer?
On my BM you could swap them around merrily.
I am loathe to start taking the bike to bits to try things as it looks like a PITA getting behind the dash, I have ordered a pair of bulbs, I figure get hold of a cheap relay to try both at once.
Edit, found a four pin relay for a fiver on the bay so we will give it a go.

Chunko'.

A four pin relay is, in most instances a simple device, the terminals being.

I have used 1,2,3,4 for simplicity, depending on the convention used, ie European, Japanese etc they can be numbered in different ways.

1) Live feed to a fixed terminal, this could be permanent or ignition supplied.

2) Out put via a moving contact to whatever the relay is supplying.

3) A terminal for the relay coil earth ( -ve).

4) A terminal for the relay coil switch signal (+ve).

There may, in some instances, be a diode to prevent the relay staying on due to back EMF from other components, ie a fan motor when the ignition is switched off, as amusingly used to happen on early Escort diesels when the cooling fan produced enough back EMF to keep the pump stop solenoid open, ignition off, ignition key out, engine still running

 

[chunkolini]

Thanks for that, seems pretty much what I had suspected.
Took delivery of a four pin relay today and a pair of bulbs.
On Saturday I will have a look and see what is going on.
I have noticed if I keep the lights off everything behaves itself., so I think I am looking in the right place...................

Chunko'.

 

[chunkolini]

I took a deep breath today and had a look.
The right bulb would not come out, after much fannying about and mumbled profanity I got the bulb out attached to the connector block. A short had melted one of the pins into the block. (green wire; earth?)
I yanked the pin out, pushed the new bulb in and it works fine. A new connector is part of a loom that costs seventy quid.
Plan A, I give the block a good clean and lube and see how we go.
There are three identical relays tucked in there, I might get this back together and see how we are before messing about with them.


Chunko'.

 

[madkayaker]

if it is just a H4 connector you gan get them for a couple of £ from vehicle wiring products http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/lighting/headlamps.php

 

[chunkolini]

It is indeed a H4 connector.
Many thanks for that.
I will pop down the road in the morning, we have one of those old fangled car spares shops that have all sorts of funny little things in boxes round the back. If no luck there I will order a pair.
My wifey just asked is there anything those guys dont know about.
Probably, but it aint worth knowing.
Chunko'.

 

[octo0072000]

headlamp connecter post free

Here your are chunks

headlamp connecter post free £1.89 just done both of mine on the disco

so these are ok make sure you solder the wires and shrink wrap then do both bulb holders at the same time

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/H4-HEADLAMP-B...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item20b9e75671

 

[chunkolini]

That looks ideal
Sadly Octowhadever I now have to have you killed.
Taking liberties with my name.
Apologies to your family.
See post three this page http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=26971&page=2
If M23 does not do the right thing he has to do himself in.
Still thanks for the tip.

It is a hard and lonely life being a ruthless leader.

Chunko'.

 

[octo0072000]

That looks ideal
Sadly Octowhadever I now have to have you killed.
Taking liberties with my name.
Apologies to your family.
See post three this page http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=26971&page=2
If M23 does not do the right thing he has to do himself in.
Still thanks for the tip.

It is a hard and lonely life being a ruthless leader.

Chunko'.

dont worry your secret is safe with me o great one

Bennitto Chunkolini Prince of Darkness

i have been killed many times before and no doubt shall be again
so i shall not worry

 

[Ducati]

I took a deep breath today and had a look.
The right bulb would not come out, after much fannying about and mumbled profanity I got the bulb out attached to the connector block. A short had melted one of the pins into the block. (green wire; earth?)
I yanked the pin out, pushed the new bulb in and it works fine. A new connector is part of a loom that costs seventy quid.
Plan A, I give the block a good clean and lube and see how we go.
There are three identical relays tucked in there, I might get this back together and see how we are before messing about with them.


Chunko'.

The melted terminal block is interesting.

Looking at the terminal end end of a H4 bulb, with the center terminal uppermost, the left hand one is the earth -Ve, was this the one that had melted ? ( top is dip, left main beam )

If it was, as well as replacing the plug, the reason for it melting needs to be found to prevent it re-occurring.

It is obvious heat has been produced at this terminal either at the male-female junction of the terminal or the cable to female terminal.

Without seeing a wiring diagram for the headlights here are a few popular reasons for similar problems which may point to the reason.

1) Loose connection between male-female terminals resulting in arcing.

2) Poor crimped earth cable to earth terminal.

3) An odd one this, one of the filaments sagging with age and causing an internal bridge inside the bulb resulting in both filaments being on at the same time resulting in excess current through the earth terminal.

4) Higher wattage bulb fitted.

5) As has been mentioned, one side with a poor, or broken earth the intact earth taking twice the load.

It may be an idea to check the resistance of each bulb -ve terminal to a good chassis earth, bulbs removed of course.

Or using a decent piece of cable connected to battery -ve, switch on to dipped lights, then probe each bulb -ve terminal, taking care not to connect to the filament terminals, repeat for main beam, there should be either no, or a very slight increase in brilliance if all is OK, if there is a noticeable increase in one or both, this points to a poor earth.

Easiest solution for a poor earth fault is to provide a secondary earth to a convenient frame bolt, cleaned back to bare metal.

P.s. a high resistance in the -ve or +ve supply to bulbs reduces the voltage to them resulting in lower light out put and believe it or not a lower service life for the filament

 

[octo0072000]

The melted terminal block is interesting.

Looking at the terminal end end of a H4 bulb, with the center terminal uppermost, the left hand one is the earth -Ve, was this the one that had melted ? ( top is dip, left main beam )

If it was, as well as replacing the plug, the reason for it melting needs to be found to prevent it re-occurring.

It is obvious heat has been produced at this terminal either at the male-female junction of the terminal or the cable to female terminal.

Without seeing a wiring diagram for the headlights here are a few popular reasons for similar problems which may point to the reason.

1) Loose connection between male-female terminals resulting in arcing.

2) Poor crimped earth cable to earth terminal.

3) An odd one this, one of the filaments sagging with age and causing an internal bridge inside the bulb resulting in both filaments being on at the same time resulting in excess current through the earth terminal.

4) Higher wattage bulb fitted.

5) As has been mentioned, one side with a poor, or broken earth the intact earth taking twice the load.

It may be an idea to check the resistance of each bulb -ve terminal to a good chassis earth, bulbs removed of course.

Or using a decent piece of cable connected to battery -ve, switch on to dipped lights, then probe each bulb -ve terminal, taking care not to connect to the filament terminals, repeat for main beam, there should be either no, or a very slight increase in brilliance if all is OK, if there is a noticeable increase in one or both, this points to a poor earth.

Easiest solution for a poor earth fault is to provide a secondary earth to a convenient frame bolt, cleaned back to bare metal.

P.s. a high resistance in the -ve or +ve supply to bulbs reduces the voltage to them resulting in lower light out put and believe it or not a lower service life for the filament

1 to 5 not as odd as you would think pretty normal on stuff a few years old
i said no3 before happens a lot more than you think on cheap replacment jap bulbs it's the vibrations that kill them

and num nuts that twist wires and tape joints instead of soldering
a couple of nice thick earth cables back to battery would more than likly cure the problems
OH Bennitto Chunkolini Prince of Darkness

 

[Shox Dr]

Not that it's in the slightest of help. But I have the feeling you've bought a right Pig in a Poke there fella, what with the other stuff that was knackered.
I'd be on the the dealer. Stating not fit for purpose. And getting shut!

 

[chunkolini]

I think we are all sorted now, changed the bulb and connector thingy.
I found one in our local parts store, damn useful places.
The wire that had overheated was corroded, I replaced the business ends of all of them.
I looked at the other bulb and everything looks fine.
Rest of the bike was sorted by the dealer, exhaust refitted properly, new swing arm (that I did not need, the 'rust holes' are drain holes in corner gussets ahem). They fitted new hotgrips as well.
The weird switchery I mentioned before was for the grips.
All the electrics are working fine and I did not find any horror bodges under the skin, in fact it was all very clean in there.

So it's off to Spain in a few weeks.
Big thanks to all.
Chunko'.

 

[chunkolini]

Just to confirm bike is fine.
All that nonsense caused by a tiny shorted out wire.
I put almost 300 miles on it last weekend.
I now appreciate what a fine bike the Pan is, 130 miles with no stops and no sore **** stiff neck or any real discomfort, and the fual light caem on just before I got home.

Chunko'

 

[Robotstar5]

Glad you got it sorted, which figure does the fuel light relate to, 300 or 130 mile range?

 

[Wedg1e]

Glad you got it sorted, which figure does the fuel light relate to, 300 or 130 mile range?

I would hope 300; I can get from Teesside to Portsmouth on mine and the fuel light usually comes on as I get there, a journey of some 320 miles (best time 4h 8 mins )
Chunko's bike is an 1100, mine's a 1300 and has a slightly larger tank at 29L.

 

[chunkolini]

Yes, 300.
The light started blinking on at about 250.
Filling the tank made me cry.
Chunko'.

 

[Robotstar5]

Yes, 300.
The light started blinking on at about 250.
Filling the tank made me cry.

Glad I don't have my V8 Disco any more, tank was close to 100 litres and 15mpg

Asked about the range as I seem to fill up at around 140-150 miles on the various 600-900cc bikes I've had.