Big Carl

[Carl Wilson]

Totally. The USSR was a human factors disaster area. Gorbachev realised that and his perestrioka restructuring reforms were supposed to change things. It was too little, too late.

Chernobyl was basically the cast iron example of everything that was wrong with the Soviet system, and could really have only happened there.

In his book, Gorbachev cites Chernobyl as the real reason for the eventual collapse of the USSR.

 

[Ubique]

Some interesting (to me) information from the cleanup phase, most of the written work is in the events leading up to the containment failure itself. https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2019/09/08/why-there-is-a-wwii-vehicle-at-chernobyl/

 

[Parm]

This thread is the most impressive I’ve read so far.

started with a big crane and we are now discussing the destruction of Chernobyl and the collapse of the USSR

only the raising of the titanic and finding flight 374 left

 

[Carl Wilson]

Yes Ubique I am massively condensing and simplifying what happened at Chernobyl. A lot of what has been said and written about those who were there, especially in the west, doesn't do them justice.

The plant staff are often portrayed as incompetents playing around with a nuclear reactor they little understood.

The fact is that they were all well educated, skilled engineers and technicians. The town of Pripyat was built for them and their families. It was full of the brightest and best. They enjoyed many privileges unheard of elsewhere in the USSR.

And you are right - many of them enacted utterly extraordinary feats of bravery and heroism to prevent the situation becoming even worse, as hard as that is to imagine.

A lot of the information I got about the plant and the accident came from watching contemporary Russian language films made by the USSR nuclear authorities of it's construction and design, and Sovetsky Televhidenye pieces about it.

 

[500e]

I’ve been to Hinckley Point C construction site.

seriously impressive.

Have fun if you go there @KimB, it’s a good day out

Once past induction h&s tool check etc

 

[Ubique]

Yes Ubique I am massively condensing and simplifying what happened at Chernobyl. A lot of what has been said and written about those who were there, especially in the west, doesn't do them justice.

The plant staff are often portrayed as incompetents playing around with a nuclear reactor they little understood.

The fact is that they were all well educated, skilled engineers and technicians. The town of Pripyat was built for them and their families. It was full of the brightest and best. They enjoyed many privileges unheard of elsewhere in the USSR.

And you are right - many of them enacted utterly extraordinary feats of bravery and heroism to prevent the situation becoming even worse, as hard as that is to imagine.

A lot of the information I got about the plant and the accident came from watching contemporary Russian language films made by the USSR nuclear authorities of it's construction and design, and Sovetsky Televhidenye pieces about it.

When we briefly 'went static' in Afghan, I shared accomodation with an Italian NBC cell, one of them had seemingly made it his raison d'etre to collate every bit of information he could get his hands on, short of having a travel pin board with events and people plotted on it. He was fascinating to listen to - and I'm sure he used the opportunity to practice his English, I've never lost interest in the subject, I'm sure his enthusiasm and animation on the subject is the reason why.

 

[Lewis_RX8]

Piper Alpha: The Disaster in Detail

Fiona Macleod, chair of the Loss Prevention Bulletin Editorial Panel, and Stephen Richardson, an expert witness in the Piper Alpha, review the causes of the Piper Alpha disaster, the findings of the investigation, and challenge you, the reader, to answer a series of questions about safety where...

www.thechemicalengineer.com

This is a good one, often used as foundation reading material as part of a complex case study project

Cheers that's bookmarked

 

[Parm]

Doing a lot of accident and incident investigation i find that it’s almost always human factors.
It’s incredibly rare that a machine or process just goes wrong for no reason at all

Causation analysis is fascinating stuff and can take you down all sorts of rabbit warrens

Admittedly I’ve never looked at anything as a nuclear power station or oil rig

 

[Maker]

finding flight 374 left

Why not TWA800 as we're already doing disaster analysis?

 

[fizzy]

Doing a lot of accident and incident investigation i find that it’s almost always human factors.
It’s incredibly rare that a machine or process just goes wrong for no reason at all

Causation analysis is fascinating stuff and can take you down all sorts of rabbit warrens

Admittedly I’ve never looked at anything as a nuclear power station or oil rig

Same with plane crashes.
The technology is already there to totally automate aircraft but people are slow to change.

 

[Parm]

Why not TWA800 as we're already doing disaster analysis?

I had to consult Google to understand this one.

why not, but have they not determined it was an electrical fault?

plane disaster investigation is beyond my skill level, but hey since when has that stopped anyone

 

[Ubique]

Same with plane crashes.
The technology is already there to totally automate aircraft but people are slow to change.

Right up until you allow manufacturers to self-certify technology..... or you get a sensor give a dodgy reading (air speed sensor from memory) then you need experienced pilots - not ones that have done a flight sim and bribed the examiner...... Just like everything else, you don't realise you have a single point of failure until that single point fails, be it manufacturer, sensor or pilot.

 

[Parm]

Why not TWA800 as we're already doing disaster analysis?

You may find this interesting?

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hsg245.pdf

 

[Parm]

Same with plane crashes.
The technology is already there to totally automate aircraft but people are slow to change.

I believe planes these days mostly fly and land themselves, human are required when those systems don’t work

look what happens with those fancy Tesla cars

 

[Ubique]

I believe planes these days mostly fly and land themselves, human are required when those systems don’t work

look what happens with those fancy Tesla cars

I think most if not all Tesla's that have crashed have had American owners..... Having worked with despite Septics, I can understand why.

 

[fizzy]

I believe planes these days mostly fly and land themselves, human are required when those systems don’t work

look what happens with those fancy Tesla cars

Pilots are still in control much of the time - hence there are still incidents of pilot error.
Fortunately not so much with first World airlines.
In fairness many 3rd World pilots have much worse conditions to deal with - poor runways and older aircraft etc.

 

[graffian]

Some of you will know what I’m talking about right away, those that won’t. Big Carl is a Sarens crane. The biggest in the world apparently, 5000t lifting capacity

Course I know who Big Carl is.
Big Carl Ahlfeldt the big geezer from Motorcycles Unlimited.

 

[daleyd]

My missus bought me this as a bit of light entertainment at the start of the first lockdown

I’d had a great interest in Chernobyl and all things nuclear for a long time but this book (written by a Russian) is a great delve into the events that lead to the accident and the aftermath.

 

[Carl Wilson]

Given what we have been talking about, I think you will all like this. Documentary film from the USSR, early 70s vintage showing the building of Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant "Atomnaya Elektrostantsiya".