Beware

[snowcat]

I have a guy who owes me 40k and I am told its highly unlikley I will ever see it as he had an accountant doing his dirty work.. ;(

Bankrupt id assume? We have a few local names who run bankruptcy as a legitimate business practice, they rack up huge debts, buy expensive cars, then put the various assets into a different name and knock everyone for the money. There is a window firm that has done it 6 times, however just before Christmas he did his bankruptcy trick for the 7th time, the next phone call he received was from one of his creditors saying they had got his wife and they wanted there money!!!.

Iv known MBOs where they have asset striped even the pension fund, then bankrupted and lived happily ever after.

 

[Shox Dr]

Not true with a bank transfer. You a have a window of 24hrs. After that you cant get it back. Even if they use the same bank as yourself. (Dont ask how I know)

 

[Robotstar5]

Bankrupt id assume? We have a few local names who run bankruptcy as a legitimate business practice, they rack up huge debts, buy expensive cars, then put the various assets into a different name and knock everyone for the money.

My old boss was one of those sort, I was a "casualty" of one of the bankruptcys, got a few hours notice and lost £3k in salary/expenses

 

[ukracer]

Bankrupt id assume? We have a few local names who run bankruptcy as a legitimate business practice, they rack up huge debts, buy expensive cars, then put the various assets into a different name and knock everyone for the money. There is a window firm that has done it 6 times, however just before Christmas he did his bankruptcy trick for the 7th time, the next phone call he received was from one of his creditors saying they had got his wife and they wanted there money!!!.

Iv known MBOs where they have asset striped even the pension fund, then bankrupted and lived happily ever after.

No mate the Guy who has stitched me is still trading . They have several companies and closed one saying "THAT" was the one I was dealing with. Sadly for them I was paying the money into their personal account. I found out recently. I have had to wait until they purchased a house in the UK as they had no assets here except the businesses . Not sure whos name they are all in, as it appears I dont know their "REAL" names yet. I have been having to wait for them to file their accounts for previous years. It shows very little money in each of the two old ones. Waiting now for this new one. According to a guy on a number companies house gave me , what they are doing is something called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_company . However in their case they keep some of the old companies going so they can still evade Tax/VAT

There is a business in doing this....http://www.insolvency-practice.co.uk/pre-pack-administration/?gclid=CKqe8_W907sCFZLKtAodsg4AFw I could not believe this is Legal as its a close to drug dealing as I can see IMHO. How the Government let this happen is beyond me.........other than they are all corrupt as well and need to carry this out at times them selves.

 

[Shox Dr]

(Boiling blood) I will not knowingly use or deal with a company or person I believe to committed this crime (IMO)

I've too been at the wrong end of this practice


taken from wikiedia

"
Criticism[edit]
There has been criticism in both the media[1] and in Parliamentary quarters, not least from the select committee for "Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform". The criticisms raised include the adverse effect on small to medium sized suppliers to a failed company, whose position as creditors leaves them having to write off bad debt from the former company, with the phoenix company having shed all liability to cover the debt.[2] Moreover, the select committee have also raised concerns that the law may "adversely affect competitors, who will continue to carry costs which the phoenix company has shed"

 

[bill_gj]

There's plenty of them out there.
Last summer, I was having a clear-out and had a load of BBC B computer stuff, a computer, expansion boards, discs, books.
I listed them as one lot on ebay as collection only and one persistent character from York outbid everyone else.
After the auction, he arranged for collection by his chosen courier and I boxed the stuff up for him, addresses the box, etc and a courier collected - the second courier company actually, as the first one he chose couldn't find my address.
He then proceeded to moan at me that the box had not arrived at his address. After a couple of weeks, he decided he wanted me to reimburse his payment and raised a case with ebay/PayPal !!
The case was closed after they reviewed the issue and told him to take it up with the courier, but he raised another case with different wording, still trying to get his money back from me.
Anyway, after about 10 weeks of this BS, I kept the payment and he finally went away.

He claimed to be a local employer in the York area, but I'd hate to be working for a cretin like that.

 

[ukracer]

There's plenty of them out there.
Last summer, I was having a clear-out and had a load of BBC B computer stuff, a computer, expansion boards, discs, books.
I listed them as one lot on ebay as collection only and one persistent character from York outbid everyone else.
After the auction, he arranged for collection by his chosen courier and I boxed the stuff up for him, addresses the box, etc and a courier collected - the second courier company actually, as the first one he chose couldn't find my address.
He then proceeded to moan at me that the box had not arrived at his address. After a couple of weeks, he decided he wanted me to reimburse his payment and raised a case with ebay/PayPal !!
The case was closed after they reviewed the issue and told him to take it up with the courier, but he raised another case with different wording, still trying to get his money back from me.
Anyway, after about 10 weeks of this BS, I kept the payment and he finally went away.

He claimed to be a local employer in the York area, but I'd hate to be working for a cretin like that.

Thats the sort of thing this company that stitched me would do. Thing with paypal, and ***** like that, is that paypal freeze your money that you might be needing to buy stock.

 

[marlinspike]

The phoenix company scam is an absolute disgrace and rife. It is a scam widely used by mobility companies who prey on the elderly then shut quickly when Trading Standards start investigating. All assets are transfered to a new company and the scam starts again. I spoke to a liquidator of one of these companies who told me that all that was left was a list of customers - no assets, no paperwork, nothing. Yet the same people started up in the same office block doing the same scam with a company registered several months before.

Apart from elderly customers who paid a grand for a £100 mattress, they owed £100k to the IR. New company was wound up by DTI but all the directors got was made to sign a business behaviour agreement. Should have been jailed.

The phoenix business scam really needs to be dealt with. Can't understand why it is allowed.

 

[bill_gj]

Thats the sort of thing this company that stitched me would do. Thing with paypal, and ***** like that, is that paypal freeze your money that you might be needing to buy stock.

Yes, he certainly knew how to give you aggravation via ebay and PayPal policies.
The payment was frozen and reversed twice before ebay/Paypal saw sense and properly credited my account.

I can only imagine what the final outcome was for him, and it doesn't involve him losing out in any way. I guess he was trying to get the gear for free by claiming the cost back from either me (had I been soft enough) or the courier on the basis that he'd never received it.

The courier he finally engaged to collect from me was TNT, so I had documentation from the TNT driver and TNT emails that the box had been collected, but I guess TNT have insurance and a policy of minimum aggravation/fuss when (relatively) small value consignments "go missing", so it's easier to compensate the ####hole and walk away from the grief.

 

[KimB]

In regard to the original post. There is allot of this type of scamming. On gumtree one to be careful of I'd snap on tool boxes. Probably once every day or two they have a scam ad. Usually the won't give a phone number. If they do they won't give an other details, like someone else said if you can't pick it up it's probably too good to be true ...

 

[Jan]

Two things to know about TNT (I used to work for them, but quit in 1986 to run my own business):

1) They will not deal with the general public unless you open a business account.
2) They carry their own 'insurance' which is paid out on a weight basis. It used to be up to £1,000 per tonne, but I've lost contact with all my old workmates since the local depot was moved out of town so it could be more or less than that these days.

While I was working there they bought out S4C from Securicor, but wouldn't use them for their own security due to excessive costs! Back then they maintained a warehouse somewhere in Lancs to hold all the damaged/returned/refused goods and which managers only could pick through and buy for around 10% of the insurance payout.

On the scam front: I was recently offered an electric bike through Freecycle. The bike was supposed to be local to me, but the Freecycler claimed that they had moved to a new home over 100 miles away. 'She' (?) offered to send it by the courier firm she allegedly worked for (at her employee discount) in the IT department. Her atrocious spelling, punctuation and grammar gave me pause, so I asked if a friend could pick it up for me (I do have friends in the area as my car club is fully INTERnational) and pass it on the next time we could meet up. For some strange reason she stopped communicating ...

 

[ukracer]

Two things to know about TNT (I used to work for them, but quit in 1986 to run my own business):

1) They will not deal with the general public unless you open a business account.

And you can guarantee a certain amount of parcels .... ;(
We were only 20 yards from their depot and they would not let me open an account even if I took my parcels to them lol Madness.

 

[bill_gj]

Jan - so there is absolutely no real inducement for TNT to try hard to deliver on that basis. What a business to manage.

 

[ajlelectronics]

City Link are no better. Stopped using them after they imposed a minimum charge of £50 per week or month, can't recall which now.