Beginners and Welding machines

[Bsmith]

Having read a few posts about people wanting to learn to weld but can only afford a cheap welder, I thought I would drop my two pence worth in.
I went to plaster a wall after my garage was built, didn't go well for me, a mason came along, said your not making much of that are you? I agreed and asked how it was done. He said the first thing to do is take that float and drop it in with your scrap, it doesn't flex and the blade is too thick (prob a 99p one from Tailand). He loaned me a proper plastering float and after a few hours practicing things got much better.
I say the same for welding for a beginner. Either go to someone who has a decent welding set up and get some practice in or buy a decent welding set to begin with, then you only have your own technique to blame when things don't work for you.
Buy quality or don't start.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Having read a few posts about people wanting to learn to weld but can only afford a cheap welder, I thought I would drop my two pence worth in.
I went to plaster a wall after my garage was built, didn't go well for me, a mason came along, said your not making much of that are you? I agreed and asked how it was done. He said the first thing to do is take that float and drop it in with your scrap, it doesn't flex and the blade is too thick (prob a 99p one from Tailand). He loaned me a proper plastering float and after a few hours practicing things got much better.
I say the same for welding for a beginner. Either go to someone who has a decent welding set up and get some practice in or buy a decent welding set to begin with, then you only have your own technique to blame when things don't work for you.
Buy quality or don't start.

I agree mate.

Never liked the phrase a good workman never blames his tools.

The right tool for the job is a normore accurate phrase.

After reading a bit doubled my budget and paid dividends.

 

[cumbriasteve]

You are correct but the other side of the argument is a skilled person can often make a good job with inferior tools because he can work around their failings.

My mate is one of the most skilled bodywork men I have ever met, his tooling is also the most rubbish I have ever seen, I would be amazed if he paid more than a couple of quid for any of it.

 

[brightspark]

2 ways of looking at it . sometimes you can have a crap machine and master it then buy a decent machine and notice the difference .or if its rubbish it may put you off and will get nowhere you may buy a decent machine and still be crap

 

[Tinbasherdan]

a bad machine can make a poor welder out of a master

 

[mrsbruce]

You are correct but the other side of the argument is a skilled person can often make a good job with inferior tools because he can work around their failings.

My mate is one of the most skilled bodywork men I have ever met, his tooling is also the most rubbish I have ever seen, I would be amazed if he paid more than a couple of quid for any of it.

Good point.

I used to strip back wood “to its natural and organic finish” (etc), but one day I got to the job to find one of the lads who worked for had taken all the toolboxes off the job, including mine.

Undaunted, I dug out my trusty heat gun, and stripped the paint off a door using a bit scrappy wood I found in a rubbish bag.

But, I could not have done that, without the prior experience of paint stripping with the proper tools. A decent tool makes learning easier, and makes future Blue Peter moments easier to create. There again, how do you know what a good or bad welder/tool is unless you get a chance to compare them.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Conversely I learnt to weld on a cheap air cooled buzzbox in the early 80's, I managed to get some decent welds out of it with time and practice, when I use a modern MMA set with Arc Force, Anti Stick and a duty cycle of more than 3 minutes it's dead easy!

 

[Bsmith]

You are correct but the other side of the argument is a skilled person can often make a good job with inferior tools because he can work around their failings.

I agree, I was meaning this post for beginners, who maybe buy a £50 machine and think they can then weld with it.

2 ways of looking at it . sometimes you can have a crap machine and master it then buy a decent machine and notice the difference .or if its rubbish it may put you off and will get nowhere you may buy a decent machine and still be crap

At least if you buy or get the use of a decent machine to begin with, you will know that it is only yourself to blame if you can't do it.

 

[cumbriasteve]

I agree, I was meaning this post for beginners, who maybe buy a £50 machine and think they can then weld with it.

Yes I understood what you meant and learning is bound to be easier with good equipment...in total agreement, I just think todays youth don't learn as much because they often have to have the best to impress.

 

[bourbon]

Must admit you are right. I don't do a lot of welding. Aldi had one of their MMA's on offer 8 years ago. I couldn't get anything but chicken poo using it and the mask it came with it. Fast forwards to this year. Needed to weld something, bought an auto mask off e-bay and some decent rods. My welds actually look like welds and stick stuff together. Still the same box though

 

[bigegg]

I learnt to weld with a 90a buzz box that I paid £5 for [1] at Selby market auction, and a box of netto (!) 2.4mm rods.

I got a banana box full of 3mm plate offcuts from a local fab shop for a 24 pack of carlsberg.
By the time I'd run out of rods, and scrap, I was getting peelers nine times out of ten.

I bought a couple of boxes of "white box" rods. - wow!!! So much easier.

I got a Clarke 180te buzz box for a birthday present about 5 years later - massive improvement.

I've just recently bought a gys168 Tig machine, but I've only been using it for stick at the moment.
Doesn't feel that much better, to be honest.

Any way, the point is:

"Welding" is a massive field.
Yes. A £5000 Tig machine is going to be better than a £150 Chinese "box" if you're welding aluminium.

But if you're going to be welding 4mm box section and plate (and "orange water cylinders" ) into fire pits, and barbeques and rocket stoves, a cheap £50 buzz box is going to be enough.

[1] there was actually two welders in the lot. The other was a 160a tombstone welder which worked fine, but the smaller one was easier to carry round garden.

 

[blackolive (Ste)]

"orange water cylinders"

 

[Richard.]

It’s a vicious circle and I do feel for people in the dilemma of wanting to start out welding.
Looking at a typical situation a person who has never welded before fancy’s trying it out with there own kit. They don’t know for sure if they are gonna like it or get on with it, They don’t know much about machines and what to look out for so used is a huge risk
It’s gonna get used for hobby purpose and once a week at the very most.
Then there is all the other stuff they need to go with it (gas,wire,ppe,metal,abrasives,tools) so by the time you’ve bought something half decent you’ve done £6-700 without a sweat and if it’s AC/DC tig we are taking about you can double it. In this situation it’s tough to know where to go.
It’s very easy to say get something decent but it’s not your money or your situation and £600 all in is a lot of cash to splash on something you want to try out and see if you like it.
With welding to get the best out of it from a startup on a seriously low budget point of view I would say your better skimping on the machine if you must but put a quality reel of wire on it and use a quality gas. Machine is just giving you voltage and wire speed so it will work ok but you’ll see far far more benefit from decent consumables with a crap machine than you will with a good machine on some crappy gas less wire.

 

[bourbon]

It’s a vicious circle and I do feel for people in the dilemma of wanting to start out welding.
Looking at a typical situation a person who has never welded before fancy’s trying it out with there own kit. They don’t know for sure if they are gonna like it or get on with it, They don’t know much about machines and what to look out for so used is a huge risk
It’s gonna get used for hobby purpose and once a week at the very most.
Then there is all the other stuff they need to go with it (gas,wire,ppe,metal,abrasives,tools) so by the time you’ve bought something half decent you’ve done £6-700 without a sweat and if it’s AC/DC tig we are taking about you can double it. In this situation it’s tough to know where to go.
It’s very easy to say get something decent but it’s not your money or your situation and £600 all in is a lot of cash to splash on something you want to try out and see if you like it.
With welding to get the best out of it from a startup on a seriously low budget point of view I would say your better skimping on the machine if you must but put a quality reel of wire on it and use a quality gas. Machine is just giving you voltage and wire speed so it will work ok but you’ll see far far more benefit from decent consumables with a crap machine than you will with a good machine on some crappy gas less wire.

That was the point I was making re Rods and mask

 

[marlinspike]

I think we all tend to think, 'I want to give xxx a go, but don't want to spend a shedload of cash in case it isn't for me'. It is just so much easier, quicker, and more enjoyable to learn with decent equipment - and when you have decent gear and enjoy it, you stick with it. The same appplies to musical instruments - it is a false economy buying a really cheap guitar because you will get discouraged and give up.

I always fancied a machine car polisher but couldn't justify the £120 plus for the highly recommended Das pro. So I bought an Argos one for £57 the other week and I am very pleased with the results.

Fortunately, with most things nowadays there is a quality budget option, or a mid range product, that will get you started. Certainly there are a lot of quality budget guitars thanks to far cheaper production methods.