Beginner TIG Setup Guide please?!

[biosbill]

Hello,

Started learning to TIG weld today at college: we've just got new machines in (lots of shiny toys!) BUT nobody really knows 100% how to use the TIG, and ive been wanting to learn for a long time. So ive spent this morning learning and have access to the welding shop pretty much when I need it during the week.

Im using an ARCMAX MAXTIG1800 (AC/DC) (specifications here: http://www.arcmax.it/8/tig_ac_dc_maxtig_1006715.html)

Pure Argon, at about 10PSI.

Welding Mild Steel (but want to progress onto stainless/ally). I tried 1.5, 3, 5mm thick this morning with varying success on all. Filler rod was about 3mm thick.

Please can somebody give me some ideas on basic machine setup?

Im very new to this and dont really have a clue where things should be set. Its got a "graph" for the ramp up, full, and ramp down. Currently its at about 60AMPS, with a intial ramp up starting at 0.1, then 0.0, then 55, then 0.2 then 0.1. HF on, DC, 2T setup.

I understand its a reasonably good machine and certainly has TONS of functions, its just working out what they all do, what to set them at and how to know what to adjust. Full spec is obviously on that PDF at the bottom of their website.

Ive managed to get Okish looking joins on mild steel without using filler rod, but not really having a great deal of success, and want it to look nice and neat!

Thanks in advance,

William

 

[Freshfabrications]

Does the machine have a foot pedal? If so I'd use it turn off all the gizmos an set the panel to about 100 amps max for 1.6 mm and about 160 amps max for 5 mm,
you learn the most about what is what by using a foot pedal to controll the imput of heat!!

Any questions feel free to PM me!

 

[biosbill]

Thanks for your help.

No foot pedal unfortunately. Its currently setup in 2T mode, but im thinking of giving it a try in 4T mode actually.

I think ill set the ramp up as pretty fast, and the ramp down pretty quick as I dont need the extra time to get in position and need to be able to stop quick.

I do wonder if the pulse was on all the time, hence it being hard work on steel.... I only need that for start up I understand.

Cheers,

William

 

[hotrodder]

First thing i'd suggest is to settle down with a cuppa/pint and have a read through the TIG forum including the FAQ link. You'll find pretty much everything you've asked about (and a lot more) covered plus a bunch of links to various other resources like the Miller TIG resource pages for example

No foot pedal unfortunately. Its currently setup in 2T mode, but im thinking of giving it a try in 4T mode actually.

4T offers more control in that you can you can use it to slope/ramp between start/finish current and welding current but that's getting ahead of yourself. Can also be used simply to avoid having to hold the button down while welding i.e. press and release to weld and tap it again to stop

I think ill set the ramp up as pretty fast, and the ramp down pretty quick as I dont need the extra time to get in position and need to be able to stop quick.

Slope up not that important a lot of the time but slope down is a big aide in ending welds without leaving craters/pinholes which is what happens if the arc is ended abruptly

I do wonder if the pulse was on all the time, hence it being hard work on steel.... I only need that for start up I understand

Pulse switches between a 'peak' amperage which does the welding and a 'background' current which allows the weldpool to cool/freeze while keeping the arc going. HF is used for initiating the arc, traditionally continous HF is needed for welding with AC to keep the arc 'lit' but that's not the case with inverter machines which only use it for starting

Not an issue while learning (especially initially as you can concentrate on torch control) but welding without filler (autogenous welding) is limited to certain applications and materials really. With mild steel can cause porosity problems (steel TIG wire contains deoxidisers for this reason) and with ally welds will be very prone to solidification (hot) cracking

Pics in the link aren't really clear enough to be sure but your description of the "graph" doesn't sound right. Typically have...

Preflow gas time- to ensure argon is present when the arc is initiated. Only need fractions of a second unless welding exotic materials.
Initial/start current- sometimes set as an amperage, sometimes as a % of welding current. Can be used for a 'soft start' or 'hot start'.
Slope up time- time taken to ramp up to main welding current
Welding amperage
Background amperage- the dip in the middle of the 'graph', used with pulse which you should leave switched off for now
Slope down- time taken to ramp down to the finish/crater current. Some materials are more sensitive to this than others, have a play in the 1-3sec range with mild steel
Crater/finish current- can be an amperage or % as with initial current. Really want the weld to freeze before the arc is extinguished, again have a play (you'll learn more, faster) beginning with 50%
Post flow time- primarily to protect the tungsten as it cools. Rough rule of thumb is 1sec/10A. If the tungsten is discoloured then need more post flow

 

[Freshfabrications]

Yeah what hotrodder said.....lol great post Rodder

 

[gavuk]

thats almost a tig wiki there hotrodder.........FreshFab .....i'm not convinced with using a footpedal though .i've never used a footpedal,and most of the cheaper "chinese based invertors" the footpedals are only on/off switches anyway , i'd agree for alluminium but for someone learning and using steel or stainless its something to distract from torch and filler manipulation.....ps....I don't weld alluminium

 

[Freshfabrications]

It's a bit of a gip to say foot pedals ain't for steel, I HAD to learn with a foot pedal or they wouldn't give me the credit on the test peices! Also it IS the correct way to tig weld where ever possible/practical to do so, every weld is diffrent and unless your production welding or hanging upsidedown under water welding a ship I'd say you should be using one, it offers the ultimate controll, if your telling me a begginer can know what is going to happen in any given weld and set up your sequencer/ramping thus, then they know more as a biginner than I do after 5 years in the proffesion.

I tig weld 0.8 mm wall 4130 tube for cycle frames with a foot pedal, and a pulser, I can as I am good at my trade weld with out all the bells and whistles and often have too, but, quality, knowledge, learning and heat controll etc all came from learning with a foot pedal.

Go ahead and use the sequencer when your learning and just rush and struggle to keep up with what the metal and the machine want you to do, struggle to keep up, when I weld I can lower the amps as the job heats up, I can lower the amps to get Bette position, etc etc bla bla, and dint have to do any mad scrambling to get good control and pretty welds!!!!!

It's up to you pro........

 

[gavuk]

You have misquoted me somewhat ........i disagree with advocating pedal,,,, until some proven skill with torch and filler is what i'm saying ,original poster doesn't have a pedal anyway , I'm no pro,but it has been a major part of my job for nearly 30 years ,mostly food industry so mostly stainless pipework and fabrication ,and have worked or trained with many lads all of whom learnt without pulse etc .....For someone starting out torch and filler is alien enough ....once they show some skill ,then introduce ,pulsing ,pedal etc .......maybe i'm wrong ?...i'd be interested if the colleges go straight for a pedal?....but from my experiences with new tig welders once they master torch and filler they can storm through the extras ,a pedal is great but not absolutely necessary ....

 

[Freshfabrications]

Sorry Gav didn't mean to misquote you and have edited the above in bold so the refference is to the correct person.

I know your experienced, and I know Im a bit millitant with my views on how things should be learned and done, but I do it for a good reason......it works. I have been giving friends quite a few tig lessons lately, and also doing a S*%T tone of ally welding with out any pedal or pulse in all positions, its a fact of fabriation that you will from time to time have to just set the amps and push the button! And one HAS to get good at this.

Its hard for me to discribe well on here its something I thing people just have to see in practice with a beginner, to me it all about not rushing, not panicing and trying to keep up, let the person dictate the pace but also see that things happen, heat saturation for example is a bitch as you have to speed up to not burn through or or get allout of shape, and on 2 - 3mm that most ppl learn on its going to be pretty tough to go at warp 9 with little torch handling ability. The foot pedal lets YOU controll the speed, bead size, penetration and thus teaches you what is actually happening......any way its just an oppinion and as you say he has no pedal and I'm not explaining my self very eloquently tonight!

Oh and 30 years is very much PRO......

 

[gavuk]

that was very eloquent,,,,,......never had a pedal to play with ,the better welders i've used have had pulse features where you could drop down to the lower voltage ,which is the way i control heat ... ...but for beginners ,we would set up a machine show them a weld,then stay with those settings until they showed some apptitude,outside corner was favourite..... first weld in stainless autogenous welded,then filler rod....then butts ...then fillets and lastly pipes....my works tig (migatronic)has no fancy features

 

[shenion]

I'm still learning with my antique TIG setup. I use a footpedal most of the time.

Most of my stuff is small welds and all different. By the time I get the machine set right, I'm done. Using pedal, i can just set the machine to the max I will need and adjust as I go. Move on to the next weld and not have to get up and readjust (current dial is 7' away from bench.)

I started without a pedal and was not a problem practicing on steel. I was doing the same thing several times; once the setting was right just work on techique.

I do find the pedal a great help on aluminum. I can stomp on it to get it going and back way off as I reach the end of the piece without blowing a big hole.

 

[biosbill]

Sorry, only just got back to this thread. Thanks for all your help, will have a good read!

William

 

[biosbill]

Right, cheers for all the help guys. Im going back to the welding shop tomorrow morning and ive got a page of notes. Hopefully I should make good progress and probably have more questions!

Thanks,

William

 

[biosbill]

Hello,

Right spent the afternoon back in the welding shop on the TIG today. Im quite pleased with my progress and getting some nice welds on Mild Steel. I mainly laid flat beads with the rod and butt welded to pieces together, one with an overlap.

I thought id post up the re-occuring problems and wonder if people could give me possible causes that I can have a look at tomorrow? So:

• The tungsten didnt keep its 20o angle for a great deal of time and wore back, however it still was welding ok. But I wonder if I need to adjust something to prevent this? The gas is roughly 10psi.
  
• I think it was me welding to fast, but the welds were VERY porous to start with, as I slowed up and spent more time "melting" the puddle and adding rod, the welds looked fine.
  
• Id been tapping the tungsten on the steel then immediately withdrawing to start the arc, the tungsten did seem to stick a bit more than id have liked. Im not sure how im meant to be starting the arc but holding the torch 3mm above and pressing the button didnt seem to start the arc, so I presumed tap starting was ok? (maybe not..)
  
• Occasionally when welding the arc became incredibly bright: even through the mask it was a bit bright, a really bright yellow colour but if I moved the rod and the torch it all darkened up to the right arc. Not sure whats going on here?

THEN I TRIED ALLY:
I set the machine as Ive read to be correct (AC, white tipped tungsten, HF on, etc etc) but the arc just wouldnt start. Im not sure if the ally I was welding was coated, but it certainly felt like it: the arc just buzzed around the surface of the ally and there was no penetration just marking on the surface of the ally. There was also a strong "bzz bzz bzz bzz" noise, sort of pulsing.. Any ideas? Im going back to try some ally I know hasnt been treated tomorrow.

Thanks in advance,

William

 

[shenion]

Post some picts of the wekds.

Porosity could be dirty metal. Also could be pulling the filler out of the shielding gas.

That machine has HF start. It should start without touching down. It also supports lift start, sounds like it is not set up for either.

Did you mean 10LPM not 10PSI? PSI is meaningless.

 

[gavuk]

As Scott said ,doesn't sound like your hf is working ?.....if its a new machine ,re-read the manual or contact the supplier for advise ,you may have to get the set returned for repair

 

[biosbill]

Post some picts of the wekds.

Porosity could be dirty metal. Also could be pulling the filler out of the shielding gas.

That machine has HF start. It should start without touching down. It also supports lift start, sounds like it is not set up for either.

Did you mean 10LPM not 10PSI? PSI is meaningless.

Erm, ill try tomorrow but since ive only got my phone I thought it a bit pointless!

Hmm, dirty metal sounds like a good clue actually, it was welding better when I cleaned the steel up a bit more!

I havent successfully worked out the HF start yet, as the menus are either very badly translated from italian or just have weird little letters on the LED display which arent exactly easy to guess. Ill have a go though, but in the DC mode with the HF button pressed, I assume that it'll only use HF for starting. What is lift start, ive never really known!

Maybe I do, thats just what I thought the regulator said when I glanced at it, but you're right, 10PSI wouldnt mean anything!

Cheers again,

William

 

[biosbill]

Ah, just read about lift starting on here..

Torch on workpiece, button in, then lift. Or scratch starting (which is what I was doing I think, well more tap starting as im used to arc welding)

I think I need to sort out the HF function really.

William

 

[biosbill]

Hello,

Just to let you know whats what....

After playing with the TIG for a few more hours, we (me and the technition) decided that the AC side of the TIG must have a problem. I got the HF starting to work properly and it was welding steel no problem. But as soon as you switched over to AC, it just wouldnt start an arc: best way to describe it was it looked like it was buzzing all over the surface, and it was making really weird noises. It wouldnt actually melt the ally, or start a bead, just made the surface a little pitted, nothing else. The tungsten in the torch also glowed red, which Im sure isnt right?

Maybe its something im doing wrong, but we set it up exactly as it should be (or im told to) with the manual checking all the controls were correct and it just wouldnt even start an arc.

It also did some weird things and sort of shut down, but the thermal cut out didnt come on. So we'll see what the service centre (suppliers) say about it and what they can get it to do, its a brand new machine so will still be under warranty. Going back next week to see whats what .

William

 

[hotrodder]

Tungsten will be white hot while welding, glowing red when you end a weld is normal that's what the post flow gas is for as i mentioned a while ago

The comments about the tungsten losing it's point (when welding steel) and 'wearing back', porous welds and arc starting problems... you sure you're using PURE argon? Plenty of things could also cause these sorts of issues, pics of the welds and a used tungsten would help

Occasionally when welding the arc became incredibly bright: even through the mask it was a bit bright, a really bright yellow colour but if I moved the rod and the torch it all darkened up to the right arc. Not sure whats going on here?

Sounds like you blocked the sensors of an auto darkening mask i.e. mask can't 'see' the arc so it switches to it's lightened state. Some masks are very prone to doing this with TIG, others OK above a certain amperage, even high end jobbies can get confused if set wrong and you block their 'line of sight' as you add filler/move

Don't take this the wrong way but i'm struggling to understand how a college would let people loose with welding kit when no one has the first clue how how to use it