Base Coat question

[burrows1980]

Hi,

Ive been researching what type of paint I can safely use at home for respraying my car, I am seriously considering giving the Jawel Non iso a go, after much discussion on here. But before I do, can someone shed any light on this product:

https://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=1683

What confuses me is you can select pretty much any car colour, but further down the page states **due to EU Legislation this paint cannot be used on cars** eh? is this like cellulose, you shouldn't be able to buy it but can quite easily..

Ive read a few discussion threads about the basecoat on this site, such as:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/first-time-sprayer-few-paint-questions.29064/

I would have to use Upol 1k clear, no airfed mask..

Out of the two different types of paint which is better for home use? and stand up better over time? The colour i'll be using is solid black if that makes any difference, and the cars not going to be used daily more like the odd weekend in the summer.

Regards

Gaz

 

[jimmyspeed]

If its a solid black why not go for a cellulose and then you don't need a clear coat? and can go mad with polishing it afterwards.


I went for cellulose its fine for home use if your neighbours are a decent distance away, masks are easily available 3M will make one for whatever your need is, i bought a cartridge one for cellulose and its excellent

A good paint manufacture i would recommend is HMG they have a mass of colours and paints types . For the gun i got a flg-5 devilbiss, serviceable, relatively inexpensive and easy to use

An important factor to look into is the air supply - quality and quantity are both important and if you don't have the right stuff it starts getting expensive. At a minimum you need a water separator (disposable ones are available that screw on the gun) i went for a SMC one and mist separator just to guarantee no paint contamination. Its also worth having an dedicated airline for spraying which goes post filters and therefore is always clean for spraying. Compressor will need to flow a descent whack depended on you guns needs.

i really enjoy spraying its very satisfying and it does save you in the long run if you mess with cars and make like making stuff, it also allows you access to better quality acid etches and professional stuff which is cheaper than equivalent halfords crap

 

[burrows1980]

In all fairness cellulose was my first choice, but then discovered the non iso 2k, and was swung towards it.. Compressors not much of an issue really, brand new clark se16c100, ive installed a complex copper pipe air drying system in the garage with a Norgren filter/reg either side of the garage plus one straight off the compressor in a seperate building as well as the one on my gun.

How would you rate the flg-5? ive been looking at one but tempted by devilbiss pro gti lite..

I like the idea of using celly again just for the simplicity of it, but tempted to try something different, was thinking of using waterbased after seeing this:

Read on the mini forum that you can use waterbased at home, but need controlled conditions, this guy obviously didnt read that lol, looked good though!

Gaz

 

[jimmyspeed]

Sounds like your almost ready to go then!

As for the gun its been great, easy to setup up and importantly easy to clean. It still looks brand new and i have no doubt it will last a long time. I would say the gun is more than adequate for a beginner and at just under £100 good value. I would love a gti and if i sprayed cars for a living id buy one, but i would say the biggest limiting factor on quality will be the operator.

as for water based all I've heard its very expensive

 

[burrows1980]

Yeah im a dab hand at getting a good streaky finish

Got a bonnet from a scrap yard to practise on first, not sprayed top coat for a while, 15 years so big learning curve again.

 

[Daz1968]

I have a clarke se16c100 and find it is ok with an airfed mask and devilbiss sri pro spraygun, may not be ideal for full respray but I managed ok and it gave less overspray than a full sized gun, however if I wanted to avoid isocyanate then I would use epoxy primer followed by solvent base and upol 1k smartclear, I used this method on my steel wheels and they came out fine

 

[burrows1980]

Cheers Daz, I read one of your previous posts when you mentioned Upol 1k and saved it so I dont forget about it, ive read on a few forums thats it good.

Watching more videos of the bloke, in the link above, clear coating a mini and for the clear he's using Max Meyer 2k laquer without airfed, plus two blokes sitting next to the car watching him with no masks at all From my limited knowledge of paint spraying I assume all 2k products whether primer, base or clear or use a hardener containing isocyanate's?

Anyway, looking forward to giving it a go when the weather picks up..

Gaz

 

[steveo3002]

no such thing as 2k basecoat - only primer/top coat /clear coat will have the nasty hardener - yes lots of people will use it with a basic face mask, its not reccomended but it happens alot ,only you can decide what chances you want to take

personaly id do my best to avoid 1k clear so either do it in solid gloss finish or try the non iso 2k clear converter

 

[langy]

Sounds like your almost ready to go then!

As for the gun its been great, easy to setup up and importantly easy to clean. It still looks brand new and i have no doubt it will last a long time. I would say the gun is more than adequate for a beginner and at just under £100 good value. I would love a gti and if i sprayed cars for a living id buy one, but i would say the biggest limiting factor on quality will be the operator.

as for water based all I've heard its very expensive

Water based still has a 2K clear over it, I too would steer clear of the 1K clear, its rubbish

 

[burrows1980]

Water based still has a 2K clear over it, I too would steer clear of the 1K clear, its rubbish

Would I be better to use 2k Non iso clear then? or is that equally rubbish?

 

[langy]

Would I be better to use 2k Non iso clear then? or is that equally rubbish?

Not something i've used but it can't be any worse than 1k, I know you don't want to use it but 2k clear is so much better in every respect

 

[steveo3002]

yeah theres not much word on how the non iso hardener is holding up , not heard anything bad yet

based on the fact that 1k is rubbish then you'd have nothing to lose trying it imo

*or just find a way of of using 2k materials , its right then and will last years - ive seen non airfed mask selling as 2k safe , but make up your own mind

 

[burrows1980]

yeah theres not much word on how the non iso hardener is holding up , not heard anything bad yet

based on the fact that 1k is rubbish then you'd have nothing to lose trying it imo

*or just find a way of of using 2k materials , its right then and will last years - ive seen non airfed mask selling as 2k safe , but make up your own mind

Just been reading the 2k sticky thread on here start to finish again, and once again has put the frighteners on me, if I lived in a rural area using airfed wouldn't bother me, but the proximity of my neighbours house does... I know any type of paint is bad and will be a problem for neighbours regarding fumes & overspray etc.

I'm going to try the non ISO stuff in a few months time, will create a thread when I do and keep it updated of how it holds up..

Thanks for the input guys!!

 

[MG David]

I have used both water based base coat and solvent based base coat under Upol's 1k clear. My work is not to the standards of people like Langy (I have to do a lot of colour sanding) but I have obtained some good results and some bad results with both.

My best results were obtained in hot weather using the water based base coat with solvent not far behind. The bad results have arisen in weather that is not really warm enough and then both solvent based and water based have had a lot of problems.

My oldest use of Upol 1k clear is now 6 or 7 years old. The car in question is kept in my garage and does between 1k and 3k miles per year. So far I have no problems with sun damage or peeling.

In the past I have found that cellulose, as a top coat, chips easily. The 1k clear is much more resilient. So in a situation where I can't use 2k isocyanate paint that is why I have chosen to do clear over base with 1k clear.

While I fully understand why expert professionals keep away from 1k clear, I found it is a good product for the hobbyist.

 

[burrows1980]

I have used both water based base coat and solvent based base coat under Upol's 1k clear. My work is not to the standards of people like Langy (I have to do a lot of colour sanding) but I have obtained some good results and some bad results with both.

My best results were obtained in hot weather using the water based base coat with solvent not far behind. The bad results have arisen in weather that is not really warm enough and then both solvent based and water based have had a lot of problems.

My oldest use of Upol 1k clear is now 6 or 7 years old. The car in question is kept in my garage and does between 1k and 3k miles per year. So far I have no problems with sun damage or peeling.

In the past I have found that cellulose, as a top coat, chips easily. The 1k clear is much more resilient. So in a situation where I can't use 2k isocyanate paint that is why I have chosen to do clear over base with 1k clear.

While I fully understand why expert professionals keep away from 1k clear, I found it is a good product for the hobbyist.

Im expecting to do a lot of colour sanding myself, good to hear that you've had good results from upol 1k

Delaying when I spray mine now, looking at early May hopefully weathers improved. I can warm the garage but cant control the dampness outside, boo!

How did you go about speeding up the drying process of waterbased paint? The video I posted earlier in the thread looked as though it dried fairly quick, with the aid of a heat lamp. Ive got a few heat lamps that I can use, and after spraying the shell in the garage, will open the door get circulation going..

Cheers

Gaz

 

[MG David]

How did you go about speeding up the drying process of waterbased paint?

I did not speed up the drying of the water based paint.

The drying time is sensitive to temperature and airflow as you would expect. On the Lechler tech sheet it says 30 to 40 minutes at 20C 50% relative humidity. I don't have any way of measuring relative humidity other than the weather page on the BBC website. So you are taking an educated guess. As a result I go longer to be on the safe side. So far going longer has not resulted in any peeling problems for the clearcoat.

When paint manufacturers quote a drying or over coating time it is against a background where customers are looking for paintshop productivity. As a hobbyist you are not looking for the fastest process time and probably end up with a thicker paint film than an expert. So I would expect to go well over their drying time.

If the base coat is still blotchy it is not dry yet. Unless you are spraying a test sheet there will always be variations in spray gun movement speed and variations in overlap across the job due to the shapes of car panels. Therefore there will be a blotchy phase in the drying process.

Normally, I test my on an old car door to check my gun set up. You can use that test patch as a guide to how dry the job should be.

 

[steveo3002]

imo youd be mad to choose waterbased basecoat for diy use

the normal solvent stuff doesnt have any 2k nasties in it anyway - both stink to high heavens incase you was expecting the water based to smell like flowers

 

[langy]

imo youd be mad to choose waterbased basecoat for diy use

the normal solvent stuff doesnt have any 2k nasties in it anyway - both stink to high heavens incase you was expecting the water based to smell like flowers

x 2

 

[burrows1980]

imo youd be mad to choose waterbased basecoat for diy use

the normal solvent stuff doesnt have any 2k nasties in it anyway - both stink to high heavens incase you was expecting the water based to smell like flowers

And there's me thinking painting the car purple the paint would smell of lavender

 

[the snooper]

x 2

x3