Bad day

[snowcat]

Clutch packs are engaged by oil flow, the excess from the pack returns into the trumpet, chest or wherever the particular pack is located, the reason they turn when not loaded is down to friction, however I mentioned the lanins in the pack before because when a pack is overheated the lanins cause the pack to seize solid which could explain a turning PTO.... If a pack has failed the oil will smelt burnt......

The only true way to test flow is with a gauge, different to a pressure test, however most pumps fail first on pressure (except telehandlers which normally dump a shaft due to the stress loading on modern variable displacement pumps) due simply to the housing becoming worn by the flow of oil, around a 4000-6000 hr consumable.......

wouldn't the packs be fed off the gearbox pump (separate on many tractors and a choice job on the German monsters i used to work on) if this fails a pressure light should show on the dash, a flicker when a pack is engaged would also sight a problem.....

the oils are important, but a decent multi oil T2000 Q8 etc etc, would be fine, issues can be caused by oils that contain friction modifiers, these make the packs slip and get over hot, (destroying the lanins).....

I dunno what the build quality was like on that particular series of Massey, but I have a Friend who ran the 81 series around the mid 90s which were horrendous, almost in bits weekly which has mad me nervous of all things red....

 

[Justme]

I just feel that the chance of both pumps giving up at once is very slim, not impossible, just unlikely or unfortunate.

Gareth

Me too but if I am reading the manual right under some conditions / selections of settings you can combine the two pumps to get extra power. So if one had failed previously it could have been set up to run off one pump.

Also reading the manual there are some many variations of what could be inside that untill its open it could be hard to know whats in side / whats wrong.

Justme

PS if anyone needs a PDF manual for the MF 500 series let me know.

 

[Justme]

1, If a pack has failed the oil will smelt burnt......

2, The only true way to test flow is with a gauge, different to a pressure test,

3, wouldn't the packs be fed off the gearbox pump (separate on many tractors and a choice job on the German monsters i used to work on)
4, if this fails a pressure light should show on the dash, a flicker when a pack is engaged would also sight a problem.....

1, No burnt smell when oil was changed.

2, I think he is going to test both.

3, See previous post about pumps

4, Warning lights? what are they lol.


Thanks all

 

[clem dog]

If you have the two pumps locked though all the power is redirected to the spool valves and the rear linkage does not operate. This was intended for loader/spool valve work and increases flow much more than power for operating attatchments.

Does the problem get worse as the revs are increased or does all operation just cease at once and do nothing?

 

[Justme]

Ah yeh I see.

At one point the only way to raise the TPL was to have the front loader lever pulled so the loader raised to the max & kept pulling the lever resulted in the arms raising if set to lift. So I did wonder.

 

[clem dog]

There should be a transmission oil pressure light. A gear with an oil drop inside it.

Snowcat....There is only one type of oil that is generally used in Masseys of that age, multipurpose. Hydraulic oil is a no no because of oil immersed brakes.

PTO clutch packs are not an item that usually gives much trouble nor are multi power packs.

 

[snowcat]

There should be a transmission oil pressure light. A gear with an oil drop inside it.

Snowcat....There is only one type of oil that is generally used in Masseys of that age, multipurpose. Hydraulic oil is a no no because of oil immersed brakes.
.

ermmm I'm not talking about foil 32s etc, there will be plenty of oils that meat the API spec for the Massey's, the older packs are far more tolerant than the more modern packs which use paper to separate the layers, all oil manufactures create super universal transmission oils, Its to do with the additives that are used..... most of these will even run in TVT (vario) cassette type trans...... these super universals are always above and beyond the spec of the OEMs high priced recomend....

PTO clutch packs are not an item that usually gives much trouble nor are multi power packs.

Iv done two (cooked), mates valtra (1800 hrs) has just gone in the shop with a sliping pack........

 

[clem dog]

Yeah sorry should have been more specific, i meant in that range of masseys! Not too many of those with failures in the PTO. Even the later ranges of masseys would not have been considered "troublesome".

Now look at those TM new hollands and you have a different story, but then you cannot do a days work without some sort of error code to say that the backend, either transmission or PTO, is overheating. Specifically the pre modified power command gearbox models before they were made to comply with the new tier emmisions and cooling was spec'ed up. Even then when you overheat and shift into "limp home" mode, The transmission is running in excess of 130 degrees c. Ambra even made their own spec of oil to cope with the high temps involved in the tractors

Right up til the 6400 range the oil specified by Massey was multi purpose. The 7400 range could have been slightly diffferent because of the dyna VT transmission which is shared with a fendt

 

[Sparkey]

Yeah sorry should have been more specific, i meant in that range of masseys! Not too many of those with failures in the PTO. Even the later ranges of masseys would not have been considered "troublesome".

Now look at those TM new hollands and you have a different story, but then you cannot do a days work without some sort of error code to say that the backend, either transmission or PTO, is overheating. Specifically the pre modified power command gearbox models before they were made to comply with the new tier emmisions and cooling was spec'ed up. Even then when you overheat and shift into "limp home" mode, The transmission is running in excess of 130 degrees c. Ambra even made their own spec of oil to cope with the high temps involved in the tractors

Right up til the 6400 range the oil specified by Massey was multi purpose. The 7400 range could have been slightly diffferent because of the dyna VT transmission which is shared with a fendt

Please clem! do not use swearwords on the forum eh!!!!

which has mad me nervous of all things red....

 

[wyn]

Hello Justme,
Any luck in getting it sorted ?

 

[snowcat]

Yeah sorry should have been more specific, i meant in that range of masseys! Not too many of those with failures in the PTO. Even the later ranges of masseys would not have been considered "troublesome".

Now look at those TM new hollands and you have a different story, but then you cannot do a days work without some sort of error code to say that the backend, either transmission or PTO, is overheating. Specifically the pre modified power command gearbox models before they were made to comply with the new tier emmisions and cooling was spec'ed up. Even then when you overheat and shift into "limp home" mode, The transmission is running in excess of 130 degrees c. Ambra even made their own spec of oil to cope with the high temps involved in the tractors

Right up til the 6400 range the oil specified by Massey was multi purpose. The 7400 range could have been slightly diffferent because of the dyna VT transmission which is shared with a fendt

intresting that, I had the displeasure of running an early (02) LWB TM190 on the baler for 3 seasons, which affectively cooked its own back ends electronics, after taking the cause up I found NH to admit to the very problem you fired off, the machine was such a dog and so far gone they did a swap for a (06) machine which was a hundred times better, and was affectively the test bed for the 70 series, personally give me the steyer TVT any day, Lindi running gear bomb proff.... shame it has the 25K extra price tag....

 

[Justme]

Hello Justme,
Any luck in getting it sorted ?

Took it in last Monday. They had got busy with all the breakdowns from silage making so are stacked out with rush jobs. I think it might be a while lol

Justme

 

[scarecrow]

I dunno what the build quality was like on that particular series of Massey, but I have a Friend who ran the 81 series around the mid 90s which were horrendous, almost in bits weekly which has mad me nervous of all things red....

The 590 series hasn't the best reputation in the world
as are as I can remember they were made in both France and Austria
the French ones seemed to have the worst reputation as they were poorer quality than the Austrian ones
only one local contractor around here that uses Massey
he also has a big Renault and a new Holland and reckons the Renault would pull the socks off the new Holland

 

[Justme]

Well its been ELEVEN weeks since I took the tractor in.

He has just got round to testing the pressure.

He says its fine on the front loader but slightly low on the 3 point links (sepperate pumps).

Told him AGAIN it takes 30 mins of hard work to get the pressure loss so he is going to retest it when hot Grrrrrr.

Also had to remind him the filter had been cleaned & the oil changed.

Trouble is he is the only place round here to get it done at a cost that would not make buying a replacement the better option.

Justme

 

[wyn]

That's a bit of a nightmare...nearly 3 months and only a bit of a pressure test done.

 

[Justme]

Its standard round here this time of year when all the farmers are in & out with harvest kit.

 

[Justme]

Got the tractor back in Feb. It needed the main & two auxilary pumps. PTO brake, clutch & a big box of other bits. Came to about £1.5k in the end.

 

[wyn]

Good stuff, should be right for a good few years or so with all those new bits.

 

[Justme]

Yeh & much cheaper than buying another 4wd tractor with loader.

They were also well impressed that it started on the button even after sitting there for so long.