Bad day

[Justme]

Not having a good day.

Went to do a bit of topping (well jungle busting actually) for someone. But the f-ing hydraulics have stopped working. On mine that stops the 4wd, 3 point link, front loader but thankfully not the power steering.

Checked the oil level & it was ok & the oil good & clean.

If I leave it for an hour it will raise the loader a foot or so & then stop.

Oh its a MF 590 4wd.

Oh & it looks like it will need a clutch soon


Dam Dam Dam

 

[wyn]

Has it been getting slower over time or did it happen all of a sudden?

 

[wyn]

From what i remember the hydraulics are driven from the clutch pressure plate ( a disc bolted to the pressure plate with splines in the centre)....Maybe the clutch and hydraulic problem are connected.

Maybe you could have a look up through the inspection hatch on the bell housing and look out for any loose bits of metal, either bits of splines or bits of the drive plate. I think i have seen one or two with that problem. You might also be able to get your hand in there and see if the shaft turns seperate to the pressure plate.

 

[Justme]

The clutch has been starting to slip for a while. The hydraulics is a sudden stop.

I think the hydraulics use a sepperate clutch system. Thinking it could be the filter but need to drain it to check / replace it. Just trying to get a manual for it now of ebay. There are a few but want them to email it to me & not send the disk by snail mail.

Justme

 

[Justme]

Decided to drop the oil (about 35L) & pull the filter. Whilst the oil looked very clean on the dipstick when actually dropped its quite mucky. Filter looked a bit chocked up too. Will be refilling with new oil & filter & see what happens.

 

[scarecrow]

Sounds like the hydraulic pump is shot the power steering might be driven by a small hydraulic pump on the engine like some of the older models
the PTO definitely has a clutch not sure if it's also use to drive the hydraulic pump.

 

[Justme]

Yeh pto clutch drives the hydraulics too. Power steering has its own pump. Local fixers think its a clogged filter (luckily its a cleanable one as they are £40) & old oil. Have new oil. So just finishing cuppa & going to see. Will be back soon all or lots of

 

[Justme]

Well first off it looked like a moment but after 30 mins of work jungle busting (so 4wd, multipower high range all using hydraulics & PTO running which uses the same clutch / drive as the hydraulics) it all went

Again stopping & resting will get it working again but not for long. Oddly the front loader works more often than the 3 point links. Also works quicker / better when pto drive is off.

On further checking it seems that there is oil coming from the clutch inspection hatch.

My feelings now are that the PTO drive clutch is oil soaked & slips when warm. As the drive clutch also slips this does seem likely as they are in the same pressure plate system.

Have spoke to the local place & they recon about a days work & £500 ish inc parts. Which when the clutch is £2-300 does not seem to bad. Oh but I have to take the loader off first.

 

[wyn]

Do you reckon it's hydraulic oil or engine oil ?

The multipower clutch pack is up around the front of the gearbox somewhere the oil could come from that and might also give the impression of a slipping clutch.

 

[Justme]

LOL on a MF the engine & hydraulics use the same multi purpose type oil so hard to tell. It does look a bit dirty to be the nice clean oil I have put in but its not as dirty as the engine oil that needs doing. The multipower clutch pack slipping would not stop the front loader or 3 point lift working (or would it?) but the PTO clutch would (from what I understand of the manual).

I think its going to have to go in for repairs, ******.

 

[Justme]

Spoke to repair shop. Bad new recons its the clutch & pump. Taking it in next week to get pressures tested. Good news is he has worked on this type LOTS so knows them inside out.

Justme

 

[wyn]

Hope you get it sorted without having to shell out too much cash.

Let us know what the problem was, when it's fixed.

 

[snowcat]

it could be a multitude of things, but one that springs to mind is a shagged lannin in one of the packs, oil just poors around the system losing all the pressure from the hydraulics, when the lannin goes it poors bronze, copper and other goody's around the system, which does the pump a world of good......

he probably has a good hunch tho on the problem if hes an MF man.....

 

[Amit]

sorry off topic..

Matt, clear your pm box

Amit

 

[clem dog]

The Masseys with multi power Have a seperate pump, or an"auxilluary" pump to feed the multi clutch packs and spool valves so the loader should work fine. The power steering runs from a pump driven off the engine, that is why the steering is ok. The main hydraulic pump supplies the 3pl, PTO and 4wd. That tractor should have an Independant PTO so will not have two clutches as the main hydraulics run all the time, so in essence if the clutch were to completely give up you would still have hydraulic power.
If the spools and 3pl are stopping working intermittently then i would be in clined to say that the pumps are fine and it is a problem with flow.

I had the same problem at one time with a 690 which is the same backend as the 590. The filter had to be cleaned and the tractor filled with new oil. When put to work nothing happened. We found that the cheap oil we used was too "thick" for the tractor and the only oil we could use in the tractor was agricastrol super universal.
Even with the cheap oil when the tractor warmed up the link arms would not lift fast or nicely. They shudered as they went up under load and waould shake the driver to bits!

Hope this helps

Gareth

 

[Justme]

Thats very interesting.

Odd that in all cases the PTO kept going.

As mine work from cold but not hot sounds like to thin oil?

Oh I have taken off the loader & jungle buster & the 3 point link lifts & lowers fine with no weight (or even up to 100kg on one arm)

As we have changed the oil & cleaned the filter what else could cause low flow?

Will low flow still show up as high pressure when tested?

Taking it in first thing Monday & if he is able get it tested while I wait.

 

[clem dog]

Even if flow was low and pressure high the linkage would still theoretically raise if the implements being used were not too heavy. If the pressure was low indicating the main pump giving up then this could explain why the hydraulics would be working when the tractor was cold and not warm when the oil would not be thick enough to put up the pressure. The PTO and multi power packs work at a low pressure in comparison to the linkage and spools so low pressure may not affect these components.

What about a sneaky little hole in the filter with a screw driver just to rule out a dirty filter!

 

[wyn]

I can't remember exactly how it all works...but at a rough guess.

The pto brake is worked on oil pressure and the pto clutch pack also has oil pressure to keep it disconnected ( bellvile washers apply the force to drive the pto when no oil pressure).

So an internal oil leak may well show up as the pto running all the time.

This could well be a load of rubbish though.

 

[Justme]

What about a sneaky little hole in the filter with a screw driver just to rule out a dirty filter!

Not at £40 (and dropping ALL the oil to get at it) for a replacement.

PTO has always run all the time even when off. Do to the PTO break I was told. It has no power in it & most equipment will stop it turning till actually turned on.

 

[clem dog]

The pto brake on those tractors was never a strong point most always run when the pto off.

I think that the pto clutch pack is engaged by oil so there will be a certain amount of drag on the pack and the pto brake cannnot hold it.


Joke about the screwdriver BTW

I just feel that the chance of both pumps giving up at once is very slim, not impossible, just unlikely or unfortunate.

Gareth