Audio question - Wireless mic connection to mixer

[Tiggy_dorset]

Im sure there is likely to be an audio boff out there.
I host karaoke, although cannot claim to be an audio expert. We run an 8-way wireless mic system, 4 mics per channel using the jack connections. We can oly use XLR for single mics which is 8 channels worth (too much for our mixer)

From reading our mixer indestructables, apparently using XLR will give +10db boost gain over the jacks. Would we still benefit from this gain using a Jack-to-XLR lead from the jack sockets on the mic base station to the XLR socket on the mixer? or would we only get the gain using straight XLR-to-XLR?

Cheers

 

[the snooper]

most pro audio is +10dB where as home audio is -4dB using xlr connections (a balanced input) cuts down on interference picked up by cable I doubt you will notice a great deal of difference between the 2 volume wise but you can always try it set the volumes then try both methods

 

[wilbur]

If they're saying that their XLR inputs have 10dB more gain on them than their jack inputs, then you'll get the benefit of that regardless of what type of cable you connect.

What type of radio receivers do you have? They sometimes have line/mic swtches on the output, or some kind of level control. (Which you probably want to turn right up to max, unless that causes a problem downstream)

 

[the snooper]

it is also worth pointing out that if your gains are not full up on the mixer using the jack sockets you can compensate anyway.
you should set each channel up on the mixer using the gain and the vu display so that the audio signal going through any particular channel doesn't peak above 0dB

 

[Tiggy_dorset]

What type of radio receivers do you have? They sometimes have line/mic swtches on the output, or some kind of level control. (Which you probably want to turn right up to max, unless that causes a problem downstream)

We use VocoPro, had to buy from the States. We have a problem with 2 mics, but thats another story. Each module has a volume knob, and a squelch knob. The squelch on each is knocked back to about 3/4 to reduce chance of interference (I believe the squelch is to do with signal gain). The volumes are always on full unless I have to turn down an individual mic, usually a drunken clown being a ****.

Its a new mixer to try out tomorrow night for the first time. Aside from the +10db gain, what else could I gain/benefit from by using XLR?

Thanks for the input gents.

 

[the snooper]

We use VocoPro, had to buy from the States. We have a problem with 2 mics, but thats another story. Each module has a volume knob, and a squelch knob. The squelch on each is knocked back to about 3/4 to reduce chance of interference (I believe the squelch is to do with signal gain). The volumes are always on full unless I have to turn down an individual mic, usually a drunken clown being a ****.

Its a new mixer to try out tomorrow night for the first time. Aside from the +10db gain, what else could I gain/benefit from by using XLR?

Thanks for the input gents.

xlr just stops noise being picked up, do you set the channel gains on the mixer ?

 

[wilbur]

XLR is better than jack:

* It's not a stupid design of connector where everything gets shorted to everything else as you insert/remove it
* There are more worse/badly made jacks than badly made XLRs (or it matters less how well the connector's made)
* It's more likely to be 'balanced', which means that the audio signal doesn't flow in the screen of the cable - this helps avoid interference. However, you can have balanced audio on jack - it uses a stereo jack - and you actually often find that cheap kit with XLRs is not balanced anyway - one of the two signal pins is just grounded, removing much of the benefit.

You won't necessarily find that the +10dB gain is a good thing either, if it just means that your radios are too loud for the amplifier when they're set to max - you'd then have to turn them down to avoid clipping/distortion in the amp, which would mean that you're using the volume control in the radio to take off the 10dB that the amp's then putting on. This is unlikely to be useful.

 

[Tiggy_dorset]

xlr just stops noise being picked up, do you set the channel gains on the mixer ?

On the old mixer, I used to set the gains to about half way.

 

[the snooper]

On the old mixer, I used to set the gains to about half way.

really you should not have the mic volumes up full maybe 3 quarters then set the gain so that when the mic is in use the vu for that channel peaks at 0dB which you should do for anything that goes through the mixer, and leaving yourself some head room on the mics means you can always turn a quiet singer up

 

[Tiggy_dorset]

Thats what I wasn't happy with, with the old mixer. To get any decent volume, most volume settings were set way to high for my liking, not giving me much room for manouvre. There was something not right with the settings/system as I felt. The person who sold us the old mixer kept telling us yeah its fine no problem. It was a horrible mixer, Im glad to get shot of it. Tomorrow will determine whether the mixer was crappy, or Im truly a crap karaoke sound technician lol

 

[the snooper]

Thats what I wasn't happy with, with the old mixer. To get any decent volume, most volume settings were set way to high for my liking, not giving me much room for manouvre. There was something not right with the settings/system as I felt. The person who sold us the old mixer kept telling us yeah its fine no problem. It was a horrible mixer, Im glad to get shot of it. Tomorrow will determine whether the mixer was crappy, or Im truly a crap karaoke sound technician lol

what make / model mixer was it ?

 

[Tiggy_dorset]

what make / model mixer was it ?

Yamaha MG82 cx - To push out any more volume from the gains used to give us feedback problems difficult to overcome. I just couldnt work very well with this mxer.

I went back to our little LD LAX 6D and got our good sound back with no feedback issues. Its been a good little unit, only problem is I think Im pushing it close to its limit if I want more out of it.

Our new mixer today - Allen and Heath zed10FX

 

[the snooper]

the yamaha's aren't a bad mixer if you was getting feed back usually top end you can usually get rid of some with the treble / hi control, but the fact you got feed back wont have been the mixers fault, its usually mic line not far enough behind speakers, position of speakers and stage monitors not enough EQ also some rooms have bad acoustics particularly halls and alike with lots of bare hard walls where sound reflects back

 

[Tiggy_dorset]

yep, had do the all the usual guff to reduce the feedback as much as possible. Maybe its just a case of that particular mixer and I didn't quite hit it off. Going back to the LD gave us no issues at all and felt so much more balanced with the settings giving me much more control. It just lacks in a couple of places, hence the reason to buying a new mixer today.

I'll see how I get on tomorrow and take it from there I guess. After that I might give XLR a try and compare any difference.

 

[wilbur]

the yamaha's aren't a bad mixer if you was getting feed back usually top end you can usually get rid of some with the treble / hi control, but the fact you got feed back wont have been the mixers fault, its usually mic line not far enough behind speakers, position of speakers and stage monitors not enough EQ also some rooms have bad acoustics particularly halls and alike with lots of bare hard walls where sound reflects back

I was just going to say something similar - it doesn't matter where in the system the gain is put in or taken out, the situation with feedback will be the same. You may just find that your older mixer has worse treble response, which is what held the feedback at bay and made life easier.

 

[the snooper]

yep, had do the all the usual guff to reduce the feedback as much as possible. Maybe its just a case of that particular mixer and I didn't quite hit it off. Going back to the LD gave us no issues at all and felt so much more balanced with the settings giving me much more control. It just lacks in a couple of places, hence the reason to buying a new mixer today.

do you use a graphic or is the mixer straight into the amp ?

 

[the snooper]

I was just going to say something similar - it doesn't matter where in the system the gain is put in or taken out, the situation with feedback will be the same. You may just find that your older mixer has worse treble response, which is what held the feedback at bay and made life easier.

yeah you are spot on the top end on the Yamaha will have a better response hence the problem, ive never had mic feedback from my mains only ever stage monitors and I just apply some EQ to what ever frequency it is

 

[Tiggy_dorset]

We use Wharfdale Actives, so no seperate amp

 

[the snooper]

We use Wharfdale Actives, so no seperate amp

you could always use a graphic for the mic channels if you stick to your jack leads

 

[the snooper]

this is some of my gear minus 3 quarters of the mixer