Asbestos - or is it?

[Sidewinder]

Parm CDM regs don't cover all building works. If the project is minor enough to be completed in under I think 30 days or so-many man hours (I forget) then it doesn't fall under CDM. Simply 'paying a mate' doesn't cut it as far as CDM goes.

That is totally incorrect.
ALL construction works of ANY kind, of ANY duration, including steelwork, assembly of production lines etc. come under CDM.

It is just that work < a certain duration is not notifiable under CDM.

CDM is MUCH more than just notification of the work being done on site.

It covers design requirements also.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I nursed my dad till he finally died of Mesothelioma, he developed a persistent cough when he was about 78-79, diagnosed when he was 82 and finally died when he was 84 after a tortuous last 6 months when he basically drowned as his lungs filled with fluid. Although he was 84 when he died, a year before he would think nothing of a brisk 2 mile walk into town and back to buy bread and milk etc.
He was a chippy all his life and worked with asbestos when they built the local technical college in the sixties and had to fireproof all the doors, sawing up flat sheets with a handsaw and then drilling and screwing the sheets to the doors.
I wouldn't wish the way my dad died on anyone, you wouldn't let a dog die the way he did.
This all happened about 10 years ago, a few of his contemporaries went the same way at a similar time.

 

[normspanners]

I nursed my dad till he finally died of Mesothelioma, he developed a persistent cough when he was about 78-79, diagnosed when he was 82 and finally died when he was 84 after a tortuous last 6 months when he basically drowned as his lungs filled with fluid. Although he was 84 when he died, a year before he would think nothing of a brisk 2 mile walk into town and back to buy bread and milk etc.
He was a chippy all his life and worked with asbestos when they built the local technical college in the sixties and had to fireproof all the doors, sawing up flat sheets with a handsaw and then drilling and screwing the sheets to the doors.
I wouldn't wish the way my dad died on anyone, you wouldn't let a dog die the way he did.
This all happened about 10 years ago, a few of his contemporaries went the same way at a similar time.

I havn't Liked the above because I feel that would not be appropriate,
I totally agree that it must have been horrendous for both of you
and to save if only ONE person from that, that HAS to be an advantage.
I realize that HnS can be a pain sometimes and can appear to be OTT.
But a lot of the time, you KNOW if you are doing something dangerous IE if you are using a knife you could cut your finger, but if you do you know you have, but with asbestos you don't for maybe 40yrs till it is too late.

 

[mike os]

this has got a bit off topic... not that we ever do that here

Best advice is if it looks like asbestos/cement fibre board and it is more than 30 years old treat as having asbestos in it and deal with it accordingly, the type of asbestos is quite frankly of academic interest only as if it is at work you are going to get a contractor in and at home you need to either do the same or treat with respect. Assume it is OK this once at your own risk, been there (back when no one was bothered by it) so far no problems but who knows what happens in the future?

 

[Kent]

I nursed my dad till he finally died of Mesothelioma, he developed a persistent cough when he was about 78-79, diagnosed when he was 82 and finally died when he was 84 after a tortuous last 6 months when he basically drowned as his lungs filled with fluid. Although he was 84 when he died, a year before he would think nothing of a brisk 2 mile walk into town and back to buy bread and milk etc.
He was a chippy all his life and worked with asbestos when they built the local technical college in the sixties and had to fireproof all the doors, sawing up flat sheets with a handsaw and then drilling and screwing the sheets to the doors.
I wouldn't wish the way my dad died on anyone, you wouldn't let a dog die the way he did.
This all happened about 10 years ago, a few of his contemporaries went the same way at a similar time.

If you did let a dog die like that the RSPCA have been known to press a case against you for cruelty, food for thought i think with the current debates on human life / right to die? CSad

 

[Parm]

Ag

That is totally incorrect.
ALL construction works of ANY kind, of ANY duration, including steelwork, assembly of production lines etc. come under CDM.

It is just that work < a certain duration is not notifiable under CDM.

CDM is MUCH more than just notification of the work being done on site.

It covers design requirements also.

Agreed

 

[ibrooks]

Looks like the consensus is pretty much what I was already thinking - assume it is dangerous.

The house was built in '83 so still in the risky period. I did know the guy who built it but he died some years back (heart problems).

I do worry about my dad as I know he worked at the power station locally for the early part of his apprenticeship and he tells stories of cutting pipe lagging with a circular saw.

Iain

 

[justin]

I think that there should be some sort of public information campaign, to warn the general public about the dangers of asbestos and where it could be found.
How many people are doing things like decorating or home improvement, unknowingly setting themselves up for a horrible painful death in later years.
The least that they could do would be to make these home improvement and decorating T.V shows give a bit of a warning of what to look out for.

 

[Parm]

I think that there should be some sort of public information campaign, to warn the general public about the dangers of asbestos and where it could be found.
How many people are doing things like decorating or home improvement, unknowingly setting themselves up for a horrible painful death in later years.
The least that they could do would be to make these home improvement and decorating T.V shows give a bit of a warning of what to look out for.

The HSE have a very good campaign but unfortunately it's only geared to tradesmen. Sadly there is nothing directly wind at General public

 

[normspanners]

The HSE have a very good campaign but unfortunately it's only geared to tradesmen. Sadly there is nothing directly wind at General public

PM sent

 

[Highway_Star]

Wendelspanswick, we had a very similar experience with my dad.

In the late 60's he'd been working in the reactor compartment of HMS Dreadnought. Whilst he didn't work directly with the asbestos lagging, it was present and he'd been exposed.

All my life dad had a cough, a kind of weird way of clearing his throat. Aged 63 he went to his GP as he just didn't feel right. Tests revealed his immune system was in overdrive and further tests and scans revealed he had malignant Mesothelioma.

He died aged 65, after a torturous two year decline. It's affected me not just because he was my dad, but because no human being should ever suffer the wya our fathers did.

It's left me extremely wary of the stuff, and I've noticed an incredible ignorance of the material, it's affects and the laws surrounding it. The number of buildings I've worked in where they've tried to pretend it doesn't exist. I was once heavily pressured to work in a confined space where sprayed insulation was present on structural steelwork. No paperwork existed to prove what the material was, so I dug my heels in and refused until it had been tested. It all got very unpleasant with threats from my employer, but I stuck to my guns. In the end it turned out not to be asbestos. but I would do it again. I would never want my wee boy to see me go the way my dad did.

I guess the short version is you can't be too careful with asbestos.

 

[fixerupper]

I find all this very scary , I spent about six months in me early 20s working as a pipe layer for a civil engineering company in Essex . Asbestos pipes 9inch dia . with a taper on each end rubber rings and a collar to join 'em...
I'd cut them with a two stroke skill saw on site , but if I needed a short lenght with a taper on both ends , we had a shed with hand operated taper cutting machine ....so on wet days we whould sit in the shed and have our meal break and cut the tapers on a few bits ... we would all got coverd in asbestos dust , no masks , no gloves , no goggles , no elf 'an' safety.... I'm in me sixties now and fit, but I wonder... I was the young bloke in that crew ....jeff

 

[Cobbler]

I worked in a garage for a few months when I left school, & the mechanics used to blow the brake drums out in a cloud of dust, I had heard of asbestosis & knew then it was dangerous. When I said anything, I was told breath that in, that'll clear your tubes out, don't do you any harm. I always disappeared as far down the other end of the garage as possible. I wonder how many of them wish there'd listened. I was only a boy & knew less than nothing as far as they were concerned.

 

[brightspark]

I worked in a garage for a few months when I left school, & the mechanics used to blow the brake drums out in a cloud of dust, I had heard of asbestosis & knew then it was dangerous. When I said anything, I was told breath that in, that'll clear your tubes out, don't do you any harm. I always disappeared as far down the other end of the garage as possible. I wonder how many of them wish there'd listened. I was only a boy & knew less than nothing as far as they were concerned.

my father inlaw worked on bus brake drums for years and took ill . went to doctors and hospital and was dead 8 weeks later riddled with cancer

 

[roofman]

I worked in a garage for a few months when I left school, & the mechanics used to blow the brake drums out in a cloud of dust, I had heard of asbestosis & knew then it was dangerous. When I said anything, I was told breath that in, that'll clear your tubes out, don't do you any harm. I always disappeared as far down the other end of the garage as possible. I wonder how many of them wish there'd listened. I was only a boy & knew less than nothing as far as they were concerned.

This was the mentality years ago by mindless morons...when i started roofing almost 40 years ago the stuff you was expected to do to prove your "manhood" on sites was just stupid,how ime still alive only god knows but it was at a time when men were men and women were glad of them

 

[magnet]

Just out of interest what happens to all the asbestos that is removed, is it destroyed or is it contained and put out of harms way, if so where.........................just curious

 

[brightspark]

hazardous waste landfill sites

 

[magnet]

hazardous waste landfill sites

............. so it buried in the ground must be deeper than normal land fill surely

 

[the snooper]

This was the mentality years ago by mindless morons...when i started roofing almost 40 years ago the stuff you was expected to do to prove your "manhood" on sites was just stupid,how ime still alive only god knows but it was at a time when men were men and women were glad of them

I don't think the last is quite true, I think they were idiots with something to prove at work to their work mates, that and being ignorant to the dangers of what ever they were doing and to a degree is still true of young people in the workplace, youngsters tend to think they are invincible, its not until years later they realise they are not invincible and never was

 

[brightspark]

[QUOTE="the snooper, post: 603282, member: youngsters tend to think they are invincible, its not until years later they realise they are not invincible and never was [/QUOTE]and by then its 2 late thats why theres all this legistation fiested upon us now