Anyone got esc on their vehicle?

[Turbo]

We live about 5 miles away from a gritted road. All last week I was travelling that 5 miles in my van with no problem despite it being slippy in places. One patch in particular has a run of water on it so is a sheet of black ice. If you have manners & be gentle on steering & throttle you can navigate it no bother.

Last Sunday I had to pick up my folks so I took my dad's Toyota Auris. It's a 1.3 turbo diesel, not that fast, nice to drive but it has permanent esc (electronic stability control) built in. Nothing happened until I got to the icy patch, went nice & steadily through it when suddenly the car flicked sideways, then straightened again! I was going in a straight line at the time, the only way it would flick sideways was if the esc braked the rear wheels!

Further down the road, going round a bend it did the same again - it was as if I'd pulled the handbrake. The corner wasn't that slippy, just a light coat of white rime frost & I felt nothing through the steering.

Picked my folks up, was telling my dad about the slides & it turned out it had happened to him too!

Car is running on quality tyres (dunlop/bridgestone) so all I can put it down to is the esc not working well in icy conditions, the very conditions its designed to help you in!

I remember when the Mitsubishi Evos first appeared over here there were a few bad accidents where the esc got confused on snow/gravel & led to a few write-offs.

 

[premmington]

All the VAG - VW's Skodas I got - only stick the TC light on - if the front wheels slip (let go).

Did notice the other morning - our little Skoda Citigo coutesy car - modulated the ABS when braking on ice at low speed but did not illuminate the ABS light while it was happening.

 

[fixedfixer]

I had a Suzuki Grand Vitara with esp. There was a switch on the dash to turn it off. I think it may have also turned off the abs too. According to the manual the ECU got a bit hot and bothered trying to correct things in very slippery conditions.

 

[Scalarocco]

My citigo has it and it works well. I think my mokka also has it but I've never noticed it in operation. I have all season tyres on both of my cars and they both work well in winter conditions. The only time the citigo suffers is in deep snow as it is 2wd. The mokka is 4x4 and has never let me down as far as traction is concerned.

 

[bricol]

If all the wheels are rotating normally, then it's unlikely to be the ESC as all the sensors will be telling the ECU things are ok. If you are braking, or a wheel is spinning, then it might be the ESC trying to assist.

I have to turn the ESC off on my 4 wheel drive Alfa for the commute home - there's one bump/crest/corner when it gets all upset and chops the power - just when you want it to stabilise the car.

 

[Scalarocco]

ESC on the citigo uses wheel speed and steering angle sensors to apply corrective braking. I experienced it first on a roundabout with diesel on the road. It sounds like the abs coming on but you're not touching the brake pedal. There were no flashy lights on the dash or anything, it just did its job. The traction control gives a flashy light, but not ESC. The joys of modern technology eh?

 

[sako243]

Yes but it's on a 2011 Range Rover. My missus and I were coming back from my parents farm having left her car there. I was in my old Defender and although the roads look frosty it just carried on.

Got home and the missus said her little Dacia was spinning the wheels all the way up our road. Following day after fixing the fuel gauge in the Range Rover went out on the same road which had become a sheet of ice. Slammed on the brakes and just went sliding but could easily correct and come to a stop. Floored it and it simple accelerated down the road. That's even before switching on the special snow / ice mode on the traction control. I have to say that once you learn to work with it the traction control in the RR is superb.

Little one the following day had great fun as we went to collect a bale of hay with the Defender and in her words we went "skiing" down the road "power" sliding from one side to another.

Before anyone goes off on one, could see for at least half a mile, roads perfectly safe and a nice area to practice car control.

 

[AVI_8]

ESC on the citigo uses wheel speed and steering angle sensors to apply corrective braking. I experienced it first on a roundabout with diesel on the road. It sounds like the abs coming on but you're not touching the brake pedal. There were no flashy lights on the dash or anything, it just did its job. The traction control gives a flashy light, but not ESC. The joys of modern technology eh?

Yes all new cars since 2014 have this, called different things by different manufacturer, BMW call it dynamic stability control.
It’ll independently brake whatever wheel it needs to brake in order to get the car back in line.
You still need to point the front wheels in the direction of intended travel though if it’s gone into a skid.
Why the OP had an experience which caused the back end to step out in the first place though I’ve no idea, perhaps the slight engine braking from the front wheels was enough to make the rear end try to overtake the front if it was on ice and not going straight, if he normally drives a 4 x 4 this doesn’t tend to happen as easily as both axles are controlling the drive.

 

[tom2207]

My old allroad had a version of it ,, it worked really well ,, like having an extra foot at times ,, when it was doing its thing it just kept messing about and the car kept moving ,, really impressive.

 

[Matrixx]

Had this really bad in my VXR8, in the manual it tells you to switch off the ECR in icy/snow condition's. I was going downhill slowly in snow, just free wheeling it just locked up a rear wheel, just like a handbrake turn, sent me into a sideways skid towards a high sandstone wall, just managed to get some grip and avoided hitting it.

If the car detects a difference in wheel speed it assumes you are going into a skid and so counteracts by breaking one of the rear wheels, works well on wet roads but not on snow, same as the ABS. In my Jeep GC it doesn't let the ABS work fully at slow speeds so you still have some control.

 

[Gritineye]

On the upside, in our Pug 107 we were sitting on a deep and narrow country lane while someone was shunting their car into a farm gateway.

A woman in a 'reasonably priced car' came round the blind bend over the hill towards us at warp speed, the car was way up light on the suspension and starting to go sideways, silhouetted against the sky.

As it settled down enough for the system to kick in the car twitched and lurched couple of times and then came to a controlled stop.

It was plain to see from her face that the woman had absolutely no input apart from slamming the brakes on!

A really nasty collision avoided there, prompted me to get a dash cam.

 

[maroon]

So if you have a collision it's not really your fault.

Just tell them the computer crashed.

 

[MetalMonkey]

On the upside, in our Pug 107 we were sitting on a deep and narrow country lane while someone was shunting their car into a farm gateway.

A woman in a 'reasonably priced car' came round the blind bend over the hill towards us at warp speed, the car was way up light on the suspension and starting to go sideways, silhouetted against the sky.

As it settled down enough for the system to kick in the car twitched and lurched couple of times and then came to a controlled stop.

It was plain to see from her face that the woman had absolutely no input apart from slamming the brakes on!

A really nasty collision avoided there, prompted me to get a dash cam.

I've pondered this before.

These systems are great, but I can't help feeling they aren't very good for driving standards long term.
People are so insulated from the driving experience now and the electronics are so clever that they do all the driving and remove a lot of the thinking too.
That's great up until they can't compensate, and then things go wrong in a big way quickly.

At least by having a few smaller low speed incidents and ring tightening moments initially, one can get a better understanding of the limitations of driver and physics, hopefully without incurring too much damage along the way.
I know I'm a dinosaur, but I'm quite glad I started driving in the era of non-abs and unassisted drum brakes all round - I just think it gives you a better feel for how it all works (or doesn't!).
I think some younger drivers think it works just like a computer game - which it probably does, up to a point...

Don't get me wrong, I think safety systems are generally a good thing, as long as you don't end up fighting them.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I think even my volvo from 2003 has something similar called DSCT...I drove through a wall of water on the A1 a few weeks ago and boy did it have a fit...luckily I had my brown trousers on.

I suspect in my case the intervention was a positive thing...I'm wondering whether the sideways flick that the OP experienced was actually the rear slipping which was then caught by the ESC maybe?

In my volvo I felt the back go....then the dash lit -up....and then the rear corrected itself.

 

[premmington]

ESC on the citigo uses wheel speed and steering angle sensors to apply corrective braking. I experienced it first on a roundabout with diesel on the road. It sounds like the abs coming on but you're not touching the brake pedal. There were no flashy lights on the dash or anything, it just did its job. The traction control gives a flashy light, but not ESC. The joys of modern technology eh?

@Scalarocco
I would agree - I think the ESC on our little Citigo courtesy car - works better than the ESC on my VW Passat Highline estate car.

Plus there is no button on the little car to turn it off!

 

[Barking Mat]

I think even my volvo from 2003 has something similar called DSCT...I drove through a wall of water on the A1 a few weeks ago and boy did it have a fit...luckily I had my brown trousers on.

I suspect in my case the intervention was a positive thing...I'm wondering whether the sideways flick that the OP experienced was actually the rear slipping which was then caught by the ESC maybe?

In my volvo I felt the back go....then the dash lit -up....and then the rear corrected itself.

My 2001 Vulva has DTSC, dynamic traction stability control, I can turn it off, apparently it can dramatically alter the handling.

I've never tried turning it off.

 

[Fraserb]

Our kuga has the different modes you can select, like sport, eco, ice, deep snow, I was pretty skeptical that changing the modes made any difference so took it onto one of our big concrete pads with hard packed snow and to be honest I was amazed the difference selecting ice mode made, you had to try pretty hard to get it sliding.

 

[m_c]

Modern stability control systems are generally very good.
They monitor wheel speeds, direction of travel (they have a yaw rate/gyro sensor usually bolted to the floor pan), steering angle, and if you're applying the brake, then apply/release brakes to try and keep you going the direction you want to.

And if fitted with a towbar and programmed correctly to detect when a trailer is on, they'll even detect if the trailer starts pushing the vehicle around and do it's best to bring the trailer back under control (it'll reduce power output, and apply opposing brakes to counteract the snaking).

Traction control is just part of the system.
I actually like the traction control on my Transit Custom. Floor it on ice/snow, it'll let the front wheels spin briefly, then gradually roll the power back and brake the spinning wheel to regain traction, then it'll accelerate as quick as it can maintain traction, while the stability control aims to keep you going in the direction you want.

 

[roofman]

Had it on my S class Merc..always had it off as it turned the 5L V8 into an old lady trying to cross the road when turned on.

 

[Barking Mat]

I personally don't rate all this modern electric rubbish.

Far too much to go wrong.

Had it on my S class Merc..always had it off as it turned the 5L V8 into an old lady trying to cross the road when turned on.

The old lady was turned on by it ?