Another smart (dumb) meter thread

[Gareth J]

It seems to be what is being striven for.

What baddies are striving for is a populace too preoccupied with worrying about whether or not their smart meter is evil (or 5G is causing their electric car to turn into a robot oppressor, or whatever) to look for real reasons for the issues they face.

 

[GRW]

A sounds pretty sensible. New technology allows companies to charge more for services when it actually costs them more and on the flip side allows them to increase demand, by making the price much cheaper, to help balance the intermittent loads produced by cheaper, but variable lower carbon alternatives.

We get lower carbon electric and, if we can modify our use to suit, cheaper electric. As well as, potentially postponing/minimising expensive and unpopular grid infrastructure upgrades. Winner.

The conspiracy theory element falls apart when you remember that competing companies sell us kWh. Unless you're implying there is some kind of overarching grand plan and all the electric companies and gas companies and kerosene companies are "in on it" too. And start ups that can and do start up - they'd have to be "in on it" before being allowed to start up. As well as national grid and the regional parts of that.

Then think about what nefarious control over energy supply would get you. A cold, poor, angry electorate. Just what all baddies want eh?

A toothless, helpless "Electorate" will be of no concern to anyone in control - because an angry group with no transport, mobility etc is zero threat.

I think time will tell. The signs may not be glaring and obvious, but they are there, and all pointing in a direction that is not favourable for Ordinary Joe

 

[Morrisman]

Adoption isn't high enough yet to push peak rate/time tariff bands (or indeed to bring peak load tariffs as many businesses have, where the business pays a rate based upon the highest recorded usage in any 30-min period for every unit used that month).
To roll out such measures when there aren't enough fish in the net would be to shoot themselves in the foot. Smart meters have got a relentless propaganda campaign on TV etc "selling" the (actually pretty useless) "benefit" of being able to monitor consumption rate - pushing like mad to get the adoption rate high.

Just wait till that day comes - you do not have to be Nostradamus to see where its going!

Add in the push for your home heating, cooking, transport everything to he electricity dependent - and you are utterly at the mercy/control of the power companies and the Govt.

They are installing Power Co supported Air Source Heat pump systems on Grants willy-nilly - in houses that are old and wholly unsuitable in out chilly climes. There's one going in on a 150yo stone old farmhouse near me right now - and I reckon the owner will have an aneurism when he gets his winter electric bill as the thing works overtime trying to heat the place. Again, once adoption is high enough & the tech firmly established - the squeeze on alternatives (Woodburn, coal, oil, gas etc) to outlaw anything but "approved" systems will come.

You have to ask why Power Co's would be funding something that purports to reduce energy consumption & reduce their profits... & of course the answer is that long-term such systems will profit them handsomely in perpetuity.
"Beware of strangers bearing gifts" (or Govt even more so). As our USA folk would say "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch".

There are already instances where people have had their electric supply turned off remotely via a SM - the power co has total control via the SM. So even vulnerable people can be cut off by an automated system for (say) non-payment during to a Banking glitch or other.

We are being herded. Slowly but surely so people don't catch on & get spooked - but herded nonetheless.

I had a letter today, telling me I have been pre-approved for a £4k grant to have solar panels installed and batteries, so I can reduce my electric bill etc, and sell electric back to the government.

I currently pay £38 a month electric. The idea of guys installing a bunch of stuff on my roof, and a pile of batteries, that will undoubtedly take up space, doesn’t really appeal at the moment.

Would I be correct in assuming the total cost would be well over £4k grant too?

 

[Gareth J]

A toothless, helpless "Electorate" will be of no concern to anyone in control - because an angry group with no transport, mobility etc is zero threat.

I think time will tell. The signs may not be glaring and obvious, but they are there, and all pointing in a direction that is not favourable for Ordinary Joe

They won't be toothless. Or helpless. They can just switch energy supplier. That's the point, if it were some big, scary, conspiracy with the pointless goal of guvurnmint control of the price of heat light and power, it couldn't possibly involve such disparate entities as multiple self serving corperations. Indeed, if all the tinfoil hatted folk desired, they could bandy together and start their own electric supply company run just as they pleased.

There is no exciting conspiracy.

 

[aesmith]

By the way, our electricity price tomorrow will be 13.26p/kWh (including VAT), thanks to a smart meter only tariff.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Would I be correct in assuming the total cost would be well over £4k grant too?

The big problem is the lease that they then hold over your roof, meaning that selling the property on is going to be problematic. Also once installed, they are unlikely to be interested in maintenance and repair work to the building.

 

[ajlelectronics]

By the way, our electricity price tomorrow will be 13.26p/kWh (including VAT), thanks to a smart meter only tariff.

A Sprat to catch a Mackerel.

 

[ajlelectronics]

There is no exciting conspiracy.

I admire your confidence. Some of us old 'uns here have a lot of experience and life education to draw on.

 

[DanZac]

About 15 years ago we got a letter asking us if we'd like a smart meter fitted, so I said yes (anything for something free).

And the electric company said "Oh sorry were not actually doing your are yet, so you can't have one"

Roll on a couple of years, and they got back in touch to say, you've got to get a smart meter. So playing them at their own game, I said "Not today thankyou"

12 years later and I've never had another letter, I've changed power suppliers multiple times, had a new analoge gas meter as part of pipework upgrades, and I've still not got a smart meter or heard another thing about them from any supplier.

Does that mean I can take my tinfoil hat off, and not worry about catching 5G. Or does it just mean that the meter fitting companies think I'm not worth bothering with?

 

[Morrisman]

By the way, our electricity price tomorrow will be 13.26p/kWh (including VAT), thanks to a smart meter only tariff.

Octopus is offering me fixed and varying tariffs now, but I have no real idea what they are or how they work, so I’ll just carry on paying my £38 a month for the moment.

Chatting to a mate last night, he has just moved out of the matrimonial home of 27 years, into a small bungalow. Octopus have quoted/advised him an average of £60 a month. He is over the moon, as his last place was £600 - £1100 a month, for electric, dependent on the season. God only knows how it cost so much, but he mentioned paying something like 50p/kWh when he was there, with Eon.

 

[ajlelectronics]

he has just moved out of the matrimonial home of 27 years

God only knows how it cost so much

The answer is in the question.

 

[Morrisman]

About 15 years ago we got a letter asking us if we'd like a smart meter fitted, so I said yes (anything for something free).

And the electric company said "Oh sorry were not actually doing your are yet, so you can't have one"

Roll on a couple of years, and they got back in touch to say, you've got to get a smart meter. So playing them at their own game, I said "Not today thankyou"

12 years later and I've never had another letter, I've changed power suppliers multiple times, had a new analoge gas meter as part of pipework upgrades, and I've still not got a smart meter or heard another thing about them from any supplier.

Does that mean I can take my tinfoil hat off, and not worry about catching 5G. Or does it just mean that the meter fitting companies think I'm not worth bothering with?

My dad kept getting letters from British Gas, telling him they have booked an appeal to come and install smart meters for gas and electric. He’d get all worried and stressed, 80++ years old etc.
Each time he got one I’d tell him to ignore it, nobody will turn up, it’s just pressure selling.

Eventually he called them up and agreed to have them installed.

Which lead to a four month farce, when they couldn’t make the gas meter talk to the electric meter and send readings back to the mother ship.

Every time they came out, and failed, they’d log it as ‘job not completed, customer not home’….

 

[Morrisman]

The answer is in the question.

He did mention the old ‘every light in the house on’ and ‘heating on with the windows wide open’ stories a few times, wife and daughter sat at home all day etc.

He spent more on gas per winter month than I use in a whole year too.

 

[Blobber]

He did mention the old ‘every light in the house on’ and ‘heating on with the windows wide open’ stories a few times, wife and daughter sat at home all day etc.

He spent more on gas per winter month than I use in a whole year too.

Wont he have to pay for both places now though?
He wont be at the other place to turn the lights off and close the windows either

 

[Gareth J]

I admire your confidence. Some of us old 'uns here have a lot of experience and life education to draw on.

Then you'll know that actual, real conspiracies are; relatively simple, involve relatively few conspirators and also have really obvious goals.

Tobacco companies conspired to undermine evidence and downplay the risks smoking.
Oil corporations conspired to undermine the evidence and downplay the risks of burning fossil fuels.
Nixon and co conspired to do, then try to cover up their deeds (Watergate).

What others can you think of? Probably a few other similar sounding ones.

The proposed conspiracy of smart meters would have to involve multiple governmental agencies, multiple totally separate companies containing thousands of individuals and the desired outcome is some woolly reason of "control" that doesn't obviously benefit any of the proposed conspirators.

It's not a conspiracy, it's a typical over complicated, ever evolving story that's been co-created by people encouraged to be worried about these sorts of things by bad faith actors online. Said bad faith actors are often state sponsored (Russia, N.Korea) or "outrage pundits" where the truth is irrelevant, driven not by journalistic goals but views, clicks, likes, and traffic revenue.

 

[sparkysy]

My provider rang me today to say, good news we are fitting smart meters in your area!

I said you tried that and it didn't work, so you returned my original meter!
They said, oh yes we can see that on your account, we won't trouble you again, thanks bye!

 

[GRW]

I had a letter today, telling me I have been pre-approved for a £4k grant to have solar panels installed and batteries, so I can reduce my electric bill etc, and sell electric back to the government.

I currently pay £38 a month electric. The idea of guys installing a bunch of stuff on my roof, and a pile of batteries, that will undoubtedly take up space, doesn’t really appeal at the moment.

Would I be correct in assuming the total cost would be well over £4k grant too?

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There's all sorts of potential pitfalls that are conveniently not raised.
Like if your roof needed work/repairs - you've now got the extra cost of shifting and refitting the stuff in the way.

There's also the fact that an awful lot of the businesses chasing this work, and setting up as "Solar" etc specialist's... are Chancers chasing and cashing in on the latest scheme.
When this one dries up, they dissolve that business and set up a new one chasing the next scheme. Bottom line is your warranty etc is worthless.
If an expensive inverter goes pop (& they do) - you'll need to shell out the £3k or so to get it replaced so the system will work. Same goes for the batteries etc.

On top of all that, they have to rip out all the existing plumbing, boiler and kit and replace it with an Air Source Heat Pump.
This will look like a huge industrial air-con unit with a huge fan in it, which will make a racket in operation, and run a system that quite likely won't work anything like as well as your old oil/gas boiler at the job of keeping you in hot water & a warm home in winter.

Oh yes - and the Contractors know you aren't paying for it, and you aren't their client - so the quality of the work and materials, the state they leave your place in and the mess/rubbish etc.... is questionable. Its all about slam it in, sign it off ASAP & get the dough.

I have a retired neighbour who got this "for free" in his 1970's built 3-bed semi. I asked his opinion on it - he flatly stated that he hated it & regretted it. I'm not surprised, as a 70's house is hardly insulated well enough for this stuff to be capable of heating it efficiently.

I'm also witnessing some Cardiff contractors installing same in a 150yo small farmhouse in West Wales. It has single glazed windows, no cavity walls, no floor insulation (though does have lots of roof insulation). They were also happily going to sling the solar array up on a slate roof that clearly badly needed re-roofing! Their work and care taken, etc etc is not what I'd be happy with (& the house owner is on their case - so if he weren't....).
Any respectable & ethical company in it for the long haul - would not be installing this stuff in/on properties it's not suited for, or which aren't in a suitable location or state of repair etc.... but the reality is none of them (inc the Govt) give a rats **** because they are ticking boxes, getting numbers up and making good money... and have zero intention of being around long enough for any issues down the line to impact them.

As I said earlier- beware of strangers bearing gifts - especially if the Govt is backing it.

 

[GRW]

Then you'll know that actual, real conspiracies are; relatively simple, involve relatively few conspirators and also have really obvious goals.

Tobacco companies conspired to undermine evidence and downplay the risks smoking.
Oil corporations conspired to undermine the evidence and downplay the risks of burning fossil fuels.
Nixon and co conspired to do, then try to cover up their deeds (Watergate).

What others can you think of? Probably a few other similar sounding ones.

The proposed conspiracy of smart meters would have to involve multiple governmental agencies, multiple totally separate companies containing thousands of individuals and the desired outcome is some woolly reason of "control" that doesn't obviously benefit any of the proposed conspirators.

It's not a conspiracy, it's a typical over complicated, ever evolving story that's been co-created by people encouraged to be worried about these sorts of things by bad faith actors online. Said bad faith actors are often state sponsored (Russia, N.Korea) or "outrage pundits" where the truth is irrelevant, driven not by journalistic goals but views, clicks, likes, and traffic revenue.

As I said earlier - time will provide the answer.
I'm no Nostradamus.... but at the big push on EV's I said that it wouldn't be long before the loss of Revenue from Fuel Duty & VED would result in new excuses and taxation to ensure that the financial benefits of running an EV (if we ignore the big buy-in cost, the horrendous depreciation etc etc, as well as the compromises accepted in order to HAVE those "savings").... were eroded.
Now, a few short years later, and EV-ers are facing VED and Pay-per-Mile is on the cards.

I will doff my hat (which you are so sure is made of Tinfoil) to you over your faith and confidence in the system, our leaders, wealthy global corps and the WEF etc... that the mechanisms are in place to ensure you have autonomy and freedom of choice.
I cannot share your optimism in the face of a the evidence and trends to the contrary.

 

[sparkysy]

@GRW
This is all sadly so true! I come across badly installed solar, heat pumps (got 2 in my home) EV chargers almost daily. And sometimes badly installed by the bigger companies!
It's such a shame, these systems could actually be helping people, not just helping shareholders.
Greed and especially corporate greed has a lot to answer for!

 

[Gareth J]

As I said earlier - time will provide the answer.
I'm no Nostradamus.... but at the big push on EV's I said that it wouldn't be long before the loss of Revenue from Fuel Duty & VED would result in new excuses and taxation to ensure that the financial benefits of running an EV (if we ignore the big buy-in cost, the horrendous depreciation etc etc, as well as the compromises accepted in order to HAVE those "savings").... were eroded.
Now, a few short years later, and EV-ers are facing VED and Pay-per-Mile is on the cards.

I will doff my hat (which you are so sure is made of Tinfoil) to you over your faith and confidence in the system, our leaders, wealthy global corps and the WEF etc... that the mechanisms are in place to ensure you have autonomy and freedom of choice.
I cannot share your optimism in the face of a the evidence and trends to the contrary.

The fact that previously tax cheap EVs are now more common and now creating a hole in tax revenue, which is being recouped with other taxes is not a conspiracy, it's simple maths! And it's not what is being discussed here. (Side note, remember the post I wrote regarding baseless conspiracies being really complicated?)

That's great that you're making testable predictions

How about making one now; in real terms how much more expensive will electric be once whatever "critical mass" of smart meters get installed?

I'll make one for you too. In the 3 years time, I predict, with a 70% certainty, that electric will cost less on average than it does now.

I don't have any particular faith in "the system" the world has really bad stuff in it. Bad people too. With bad motives. I'm just telling you that there is no evidence massive groups of these baddies are conspiring together. Whether to make our lives worse for the spurious reasons talked about here or otherwise.