Another Plea for Help in Choosing a Suitable Welder

[Paul by the sea]

Hello, I need a welder which will be suitable for metal from 16 to 10 gauge. I will be working under a car port on an old Triumph Spitfire chassis. I don't want to spend a lot, under £200 including an automatic dimming helmet, and think that an inverter arc type welder would fit the bill. Does anyone have experience of using this SIP 05702 T113 230v ARC / TIG 100amp Inverter Welder Generator Safe MMA? I really don't want the hassle and expense of a mig with gas bottles and having read several comments about gasless migs, I think the inverter arc welder is the way forward for a relative newbie.

 

[rikrobson]

I think you will struggle using an arc welder for that job. They are not too good at thin stuff. I've never used an arc down that low. If its thin stuff then I use the mig.
But if that's what the budget dictates then you'll need to get some 1.6mm rods and practice before attempting to get near the chassis.

the welding current is set to the electrodes you are using and don't want too many amps on a car. Also I recommend cleaning the rusty bits away too. There is always more rust than you think.

You may be better getting a second hand mig and a pub gas bottle or a rent free.

D&A Motor Factors are agents for Adams gas, which is rent free, but a deposit on the bottle.

I got my first Mig of ebay for about £50, I had to go to Denny to pick that up. check for nearest to you or use baycrazy.com

I know they don't come up very often up this neck of the woods but the is usually something turning up dundee way.

I've an old clarke 100en knocking about. I think it still works and I have some gassles wire. I'll look it out at the week end and see what the welds are like on that. I'll also think there are some old 1.6mm rods knocking about too. not sure if they will be any good but ill run a few beads on some thin stuff and post up the photos so you can see what you're going to be up against.

 

[Paul by the sea]

Hello rikrobson, Thanks very much for your reply. The chassis is going to be sandblasted and coated with weld through undercoat before any welding starts so it should be good and clean. I am building a kit car using the Spitfire chassis which involves cutting off the existing outriggers and then welding on different ones to form a framework to support the new glassfibre body. The floor is also welded to the bottom of the framework and will be new sheet steel. So, the only metal which is not new is the existing chassis and all the new metal will be, I think, a minimum of 10 or 12 gauge steel. The guy who sells the kit has recommended using an arc welder rather than a mig if you are not experienced in welding as it will give, in his words, better penetration. That and the cost is really what has steered me in the direction of the inverter arc welders. Apart from the kit car, the only other welding I expect to do will be a few repairs to a friend's trailers. I will be very interested to see the results of both the gasless mig and the inverter arc welders if you are kind enough to do that. Thanks once again, Paul

 

[rikrobson]

10-12 gauge is about 3mm. This will require some degree of penetration and would be at the top of the range of a ceap MIG, hence the warning from the seller. So it would be OK if you were just doing the chassis.

 

[Richard.]

Paul the info from the guy selling is more wrong than right. Penetration with an mma set is not going to to be a problem so that's where he is right but as for suitable for a beginner he couldn't be any further away. That is the last process I'd adopt to weld/build a kit car. That's going to be a lot of welding done laying on your back or v up and to achieve sound joints in all those positions with an arc welder the skill level needs to be bang on.
Mma is a great tool but it's not a beginners tool for welding in all various positions round a kitcar. If your set on that type of welder Id be budgeting for some argon too and doing it with lift arc Tig.

 

[Paul by the sea]

Hi Richard, Thanks for your reply. The chassis is completely stripped and not that heavy. I expect to be able to turn it upside down to do any welding on the underside, apart possibly from a tack weld to hold something steady while turning the chassis over and I can raise it to about waist height to weld on the side of the chassis as required so don't intend to be doing any welding lying on my back. The object of the exercise would be to learn how to weld competently, it would be more convenient to do it myself and to save a bit of money. I'm not sure what you mean by budgeting for Argon and doing it with lift arc Tig? I have been told that a competent welder should be able to do all the work in a day, but so far nobody will commit to a price. Hence the welder purchase.

 

[Paul by the sea]

Hello pdg, thanks for your reply. I agree with all you have said. BUT, I am retired and have plenty of time to learn. I did do a City and Guilds welding course as I was leaving the army but that was 20 years ago and I have done little or no welding since so know that I need to practice before welding the chassis. How long do you think it should take to learn to weld pieces of metal together which are consistently the same thickness? I intend to "do it right" if I do go ahead and buy a welder and will do it again and again until it is. I can also set your mind at rest, I hope, by saying that the car will never set foot in Wiltshire.

 

[Paul by the sea]

Ha Ha!! I would hope a couple of hours playing with the power setting and generally getting used to welding again should allow me to make a decent attempt. But as I said, I'll do it again and again until it is "right". The only mig option for me would be a gasless set up and I'm not sure that I could get the correct penetration in that case. The welder I am looking at is supposed to be good for 1.5 to 5mm weld thickness which should be plenty as 10 gauge is in the middle of the range at 3.4 mm. The current is adjustable from 20 to 100Amps and it takes 1.6 to 2.5mm rods and uses a normal 13 Amp domestic plug so the spec seems to be suitable for the job I want it to do and probably ok to do a few bits and pieces of welding for my friend. If I were welding bodywork, I agree, a mig would be best but bodywork is much thinner gauge than the chassis and the metal for the framework. If needed, the floors could be plug welded and sealed as the edge has to overlap the framework by 10mm to give support to the fibreglass bodywork and therefore, must be perfectly flat along those edges. Can you see any flaws in my logic?
Cheers, Paul