An alternative living using 2sqft workshop.

[premmington]

I'm not surprised young people don't have the same work ethic when you are paying them in depreciating currency.

Average weekly earnings in Great Britain - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of growth in earnings for employees before tax and other deductions from pay.

www.ons.gov.uk

At best, it is a mixed bag. Not conducive for accumulating wealth. Ignore the nominals.

View attachment 413887

When you google:

Key statistics for UK salaries
In 2023, average regular pay (excluding bonuses) has grown by an average of 6.6% from January to April 2023. Maintaining this growth could see the average UK salary reach £29,588 in 2023. This is a £1,832 increase from the median salary of £27,756 as of 2022.

When you concider inflation:

The UK's inflation rate in April 2023, as measured by the Consumer Price Index (CPI), was 8.7%. The detailed inflation measures for the year to April 2023 are as follows: CPI inflation was 8.7% in April 2023 (Index: 130.4), down from 10.1% in the year to March.


Not allot of chance for saving is there?

 

[MetalMonkey]

I was never paid a big rate through my 20s30s and40s but I did have access to unlimited overtime and I made use of it. 60hour weeks were the minimum I worked and it was reqularly 70 and 80hours. And now at 58 I have a very comfortable life with two properties and no mortgages. Young people to these days don't seem to have the same work ethic.

I don't think that is entirely fair - there are a lot of young people working very hard. However, the opportunities that once were are no longer.
While new ones always open up I'm not too sure that they are all that accessible to the majority any more, and they aren't really linked to the amount of graft you put in, more luck and timing.

For example about 25 years ago I was working for a place that was paying £10.65 an hour. That same type of job now i see being advertised at £13 an hour.
I haven't done the maths to work out how that compares to inflation, house prices and the cost of milk - but I can take a guess that a young lad working 80 hours a week now, wouldn't be as well off in real terms as me doing 40 hours back then.

Another place I worked used to offer quadruple overtime for Christmas shifts. Now they offer Time off in lieu.
It gets more complicated and harder every year to earn a decent wage, meanwhile the cost of everything skyrockets.

Saving enough for a deposit on a house and an affordable mortgage is a pipe-dream for a lot of young adults these days.

The other half keeps scolding me for criticising the prices of everything, and tells me I'm stuck in the 90s, but I suppose my point is, wages seem to be too.

 

[premmington]

I don't think that is entirely fair - there are a lot of young people working very hard. However, the opportunities that once were are no longer.
While new ones always open up I'm not too sure that they are all that accessible to the majority any more, and they aren't really linked to the amount of graft you put in, more luck and timing.

For example about 25 years ago I was working for a place that was paying £10.65 an hour. That same type of job now i see being advertised at £13 an hour.
I haven't done the maths to work out how that compares to inflation, house prices and the cost of milk - but I can take a guess that a young lad working 80 hours a week now, wouldn't be as well off in real terms as me doing 40 hours back then.

Another place I worked used to offer quadruple overtime for Christmas shifts. Now they offer Time off in lieu.
It gets more complicated and harder every year to earn a decent wage, meanwhile the cost of everything skyrockets.

Saving enough for a deposit on a house and an affordable mortgage is a pipe-dream for a lot of young adults these days.

The other half keeps scolding me for criticising the prices of everything, and tells me I'm stuck in the 90s, but I suppose my point is, wages seem to be too.

I think you summed it up - very well with what you put above.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I think you summed it up - very well with what you put above.

Yup...if starting from zero the ability to buy house (or houses) seems to depend in part on how hard you work...and also the luck of the draw in terms of when you were born!

I consider myself both hard working...and lucky (born in the 1970s)!

 

[addjunkie]

Yup...if starting from zero the ability to buy house (or houses) seems to depend in part on how hard you work...and also the luck of the draw in terms of when you were born!

I consider myself both hard working...and lucky (born in the 1970s)!

Also the location is a big factor. An ex council semi in one place is 125k in another its 500k….one is relatively affordable for a hard working person the other isn't.

A friend of my daughter (27) single works for an employment agency has just bought an ex council two bed semi for 125k, its a bit rough round the edges, needs work, but she has done it all her self, no parental help as her mother is in her words a government benefits statistic!

I fitted a second hand cooker for her, and a couple of curtain rails when she first moved in.

 

[DanZac]

I don't disagree that it's harder to get on the property ladder today and that wages have fallen in real terms, but at the same time people's outlook, requirements, and desires have changed, and as such, we're often not comparing the same thing as when we were in that position.

Taking my lad as an example, he's 25 and still lives at home with his mum (my ex). But at 25, he's only just started full time work having messed around as a kid, and then decided to go to university (and his long term girlfriend who's the same age, is still studying full time).

He's got a car, golf club and gym memberships, a new phone, a £1000 watch on his wrist, and they've just got back from a 2 week holiday.

I'll give him full credit, that he doesn't really drink, doesn't smoke or do any of the other things that I did in my youth, and working mostly with "kids" his age I don't think that his outlook, attitudes, or way of life are untypical either.

But comparing his lifestyle to mine when I was his age and had been in full time employment since 16, we're miles apart.

I was born in the 70's and bought my first house at 28, by which time I'd been working full time for 9 years, having left home at 18.

Getting a job, moving out and gaining your independence and ultimately buying a place of your own we're the top priority in my youth.

Today, and maybe the high cost of property has some impact on their decisions, that doesn't seem to be the case. By the time my lads worked full time for 9 years, as I had when I bought my first house, he'll be 34, which interestingly is the average age of a first time buyer in the UK.

What does any of that tell us? I've got no idea, but I think we need to be looking at a lot more than just £, when considering property buying / ownership, work ethics and "the youth of today"

First-time buyer statistics UK: 2025

We look at the latest first-time buyer statistics to see how difficult it is to get your foot on the property ladder in the UK.

www.finder.com

 

[GRW]

When you google:

Key statistics for UK salaries
In 2023, average regular pay (excluding bonuses) has grown by an average of 6.6% from January to April 2023. Maintaining this growth could see the average UK salary reach £29,588 in 2023. This is a £1,832 increase from the median salary of £27,756 as of 2022.

When you concider inflation:

The UK's inflation rate in April 2023, as measured by the Consumer Price Index (CPI), was 8.7%. The detailed inflation measures for the year to April 2023 are as follows: CPI inflation was 8.7% in April 2023 (Index: 130.4), down from 10.1% in the year to March.


Not allot of chance for saving is there?

Also when you consider that this "average" is affected by those with huge salaries....
It means there's a very, very big pool of workers on considerably less than that "average" £29.5k. Many (even full-time) will be below 25k.

 

[premmington]

Also when you consider that this "average" is affected by those with huge salaries....
It means there's a very, very big pool of workers on considerably less than that "average" £29.5k. Many (even full-time) will be below 25k.

An average is "yes" made up of very low and very high numbers.

 

[GRW]

An average is "yes" made up of very low and very high numbers.

Indeed..... but that "yes" value will have been arrived at with a far bigger quantity of much lower salaried, and a much lower quantity of 30-60k salaries, then a lower qty of 60-150k salaries.... & so on till we get to the CEO's on multiple £million salaries.
The national average - isn't a true reflection of the salary of the majority was the point, and to that majority £29k is an aspirational (& unrealistic) wage.

 

[premmington]

Indeed..... but that "yes" value will have been arrived at with a far bigger quantity of much lower salaried, and a much lower quantity of 30-60k salaries, then a lower qty of 60-150k salaries.... & so on till we get to the CEO's on multiple £million salaries.
The national average - isn't a true reflection of the salary of the majority was the point, and to that majority £29k is an aspirational (& unrealistic) wage.

There are three main types of averages:

• the mean (the sum or product of the values of a group of numbers divided by how many numbers there are in the group);
• the median (the middle value of a group of numbers);
• the mode or modus (the most common value of a group of numbers).

Wonder which method they used...?

The one that suited the spin they wanted to deliver - I would guess...!

 

[GRW]

There are three main types of averages:

• the mean (the sum or product of the values of a group of numbers divided by how many numbers there are in the group);
• the median (the middle value of a group of numbers);
• the mode or modus (the most common value of a group of numbers).

Wonder which method they used...?

The one that suited the spin they wanted to deliver - I would guess...!

Were it ever more true than when related to politics, marketing or sales:
"There are lies, damned lies, & statistics"

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Also the location is a big factor. An ex council semi in one place is 125k in another its 500k….one is relatively affordable for a hard working person the other isn't.

Yep for sure...I started at zero in an ex steel town up north...ended up buying in west London. Hard work and some luck was involved...I doubt it's as easy to do now.

I was unlucky on pensions though...if I was 5-10 years older I would probably have got on the final salary band wagon too...again mainly just unlucky so it can go both ways I think!

 

[premmington]

I don't disagree that it's harder to get on the property ladder today and that wages have fallen in real terms, but at the same time people's outlook, requirements, and desires have changed, and as such, we're often not comparing the same thing as when we were in that position.

Taking my lad as an example, he's 25 and still lives at home with his mum (my ex). But at 25, he's only just started full time work having messed around as a kid, and then decided to go to university (and his long term girlfriend who's the same age, is still studying full time).

He's got a car, golf club and gym memberships, a new phone, a £1000 watch on his wrist, and they've just got back from a 2 week holiday.

I'll give him full credit, that he doesn't really drink, doesn't smoke or do any of the other things that I did in my youth, and working mostly with "kids" his age I don't think that his outlook, attitudes, or way of life are untypical either.

But comparing his lifestyle to mine when I was his age and had been in full time employment since 16, we're miles apart.

I was born in the 70's and bought my first house at 28, by which time I'd been working full time for 9 years, having left home at 18.

Getting a job, moving out and gaining your independence and ultimately buying a place of your own we're the top priority in my youth.

Today, and maybe the high cost of property has some impact on their decisions, that doesn't seem to be the case. By the time my lads worked full time for 9 years, as I had when I bought my first house, he'll be 34, which interestingly is the average age of a first time buyer in the UK.

What does any of that tell us? I've got no idea, but I think we need to be looking at a lot more than just £, when considering property buying / ownership, work ethics and "the youth of today"

First-time buyer statistics UK: 2025

We look at the latest first-time buyer statistics to see how difficult it is to get your foot on the property ladder in the UK.

www.finder.com

Your description above - does sort of follow what I am seeing.

My Dad was at work at 14 - my Mother at 15. My wife at 15 and I was 16.

All my kids did not start full time work till aged 23 to 25 (they all got further education).

---------

Where I value enterprise more than education - my kids don't...

 

[dobbslc]

This is a problem, "kids" in education until they're in their 20's , who's paying for it?
On the other hand the idiots in power have now realized that not everyone is a university graduate in waiting and have been promoting the wrong career paths for years in IT, media, sales and other "non productive" jobs.
The construction industry was /is a dirty word and the lack of technical apprenticeships meant we have imported thousands of trades from other countries we shouldn't have needed to!
Madness.

 

[premmington]

This is a problem, "kids" in education until they're in their 20's , who's paying for it?
On the other hand the idiots in power have now realized that not everyone is a university graduate in waiting and have been promoting the wrong career paths for years in IT, media, sales and other "non productive" jobs.
The construction industry was /is a dirty word and the lack of technical apprenticeships meant we have imported thousands of trades from other countries we shouldn't have needed to!
Madness.

Nobody wants to get into my trade! Real shortage of skilled labour now...

No young person wants to be a car mechanic - truck fitter - plant/agri fitter.

And why would they? At aged 16 - there all being told they destined for better things - higher education and the like.

 

[MetalMonkey]

Up until very recently kids have been pushed into going to university - the attitude being very much no degree = no decent employment, which naturally means that by the time you have young people entering the workforce they will be older.
Couple that with the fact that years ago that education would have been free or very low cost, and is now running at about £45,000 of debt means they are already starting off at quite a disadvantage.

I can sort of see the their point. I did mine later in life while working and it was a lot harder than if I had done it when I was younger. The main reason being I was fed up with the snobbery I encountered having "only" an HND.
I was lucky and in a position to minimise the cost, and paid back the loans very quickly, but I have sympathy for those that felt like they "had" to get a degree to be taken seriously, because the reality is they probably did.

It doesn't help that a lot of the degree subjects that have been "pushed" by universities are of very questionable value as far as future employment prospects go, with students just seen as a cash cow.

 

[GRW]

I think a lot of people doing well out of services rendered and /or using skills to make things..... have skills/product that is squarely aimed at the well-off.

The "well-off" /luxury / bespoke etc market is not only largely impervious to the economic state overall.... but is also prepared to pay the premium for bespoke / "artisan" work - so economies of scale that govern mass-market stuff doesn't apply.

It's no coincidence that the trades producing craftsmanship & quality do well IMO (plus there's no hope of competing with huge corps on price).

 

[bump]

I became almost suicidal with it. Drove me (almost) into the loony bin. The only way to succeed in this field is to find a magic wand.

I found that being choosey who I'd work for was key. They had to have the sort of ethos and outlook that matched me.

 

[addjunkie]

Nobody wants to get into my trade! Real shortage of skilled labour now...

No young person wants to be a car mechanic - truck fitter - plant/agri fitter.

And why would they? At aged 16 - there all being told they destined for better things - higher education and the like.

The education gurus call it ”Raising Achievement”. In reality more disapointed disalousioned yoof, waiting to become a future statistic.

As for apprenticeships as companies now use subbies, and there are so many one man bands, there isnt much incentive to hire apprentices.

I struggled to climb the corporate ladder with out a degree, only have an HND, and a Class 1 ticket as a Marine Engineer, which sadly as we've little shipping left most dont know what it is, or how hard it was to get. One of the biggest issues I feel is the human remains types have a degree, so think everyone else should have one!

 

[dobbslc]

Construction, it's rotting from the bottom up
I'll be out of it in a few years hopefully, the corporate & H&E BS now is just to much to deal with.