An alternative living using 2sqft workshop.

[premmington]

Its not just Norfolk…..its everywhere. In reality 40 or so years ago, if you had a real job, saved a bit for a deposit a youngish working man could buy a house with a 3 time salary mortgage. Now there are less real jobs paying a decent wage, and house prices have inflated for many reasons, supply and demand due to cheap money being available, inflation etc. So now most younguns need a far higher salary multiplyer to buy a house.

There is gonna be a housing shortage when a percentage of the population has a second home they use as a holiday home.

Google: In 2021-22, 2.1 million households reported having at least one second property. Most of these households let their second property out in the private rented sector, though just over a third (712,000 households) used their property as a second home

To me - with abit of quick maths works out to: 3% of the population has a holiday home and another 7% have a second home they rent out.

Does show that - we not that skint in the UK - if one in ten people own more than one property.

 

[GRW]

Rural Norfolk - wages are low - but since the DFL lot have turned every redundant barn and pig sty into a holiday home. Property is now unaffordable...

DFL = down from London

Pretty much the same situation as here then P. Pembrokeshire's nickname for decades has been "Little England", & yes, lots of 2nd homes and many mini property magnates with their Property Portfolios etc.

I can't blame folk for wanting to live here. Plenty of local people bemoan the influx of outsiders pushing up property prices..... whilst conveniently overlooking that largely its been local monied people that were quickest to exploit it.

 

[addjunkie]

There is gonna be a housing shortage when a percentage of the population has a second home they use as a holiday home.

Google: In 2021-22, 2.1 million households reported having at least one second property. Most of these households let their second property out in the private rented sector, though just over a third (712,000 households) used their property as a second home

To me - with abit of quick maths works out to: 3% of the population has a holiday home and another 7% have a second home they rent out.

Does show that - we not that skint in the UK - if one in ten people own more than one property.

Not going to debate the numbers, but suspect this like many other luxuries will rise and fall based on the economy and interest rates. Remortgaging your home to buy boat, holiday home, caravan, investment property at 2% interest rates is far more popular than it is at say 6% or 8%.

The COVID uk holiday boom and changes to taxation on private rental income have also pushed investors towards the holiday sector with higher returns, also promoted by the Sunday Supplement type press quoting between 10 and 15% net Versus about 4.5 % on buy to let. But holiday homes are a hassle when your remote, cleaning and any maintenance end up eating into margins quite rapidly.

 

[GRW]

Housing is well down the path the general public is bring pushed with transport through cost.
Property & land is being bought largely by those with the money to invest. The "buy to rent" trend of building a portfolio of lower-end housing to rent out (often to those on benefits, as the rents can be out-of-teach to lower-paid working people).

"Buying your own home" is getting beyond the means of ordinary people - meaning a large pool of life-long Renters is keeping rents high & ensuring the situation remains that way.

In West Wales where I am, a small 3-bed monthly rental can be as much as £900pcm now. That is peanuts compared to £2kpcm for a Fulham flat or whatever perhaps..... but as a proportion if the typical wage..... well it means that its extremely hard for working young folk to pay rent & save to build a deposit - so they are trapped in a rent cycle.

It's not going to get any better!

 

[GRW]

Not going to debate the numbers, but suspect this like many other luxuries will rise and fall based on the economy and interest rates. Remortgaging your home to buy boat, holiday home, caravan, investment property at 2% interest rates is far more popular than it is at say 6% or 8%.

The COVID uk holiday boom and changes to taxation on private rental income have also pushed investors towards the holiday sector with higher returns, also promoted by the Sunday Supplement type press quoting between 10 and 15% net Versus about 4.5 % on buy to let. But holiday homes are a hassle when your remote, cleaning and any maintenance end up eating into margins quite rapidly.

You should not overlook - that a Recession is a big boon to the largely inflation-proof well-off.

When Spending is down & property values are depressed - is when the wealthy INVEST. They can afford to buy cheap & sit on the investment (&/or improve the property for less Spend)..... ready to xash-in for a bigger pay-day when the market recovers.

The UK economy hasn't been good since 07/08..... and the massive increase in the wealth & assets of the well-off versus the very real fall in the standards of living & wages of the mainstream tells you all you need to know.

 

[addjunkie]

You should not overlook - that a Recession is a big boon to the largely inflation-proof well-off.

speculate to accumulate, its all just a calculated risk. But by the same token the more you have to speculate with, the bigger the gains or losses depending if youve backed the right horse.

No real difference to a guy in the bookies investing his quid each way, just different numbers.

 

[GRW]

No real difference to a guy in the bookies investing his quid each way, just different numbers.

..... except the odds are "dead cert" as long as you can afford to wait long enough (plus they can use the property as collateral, in effect being able to borrow a big part of the initial "bet" back again).

Those already financially secure (as long as they don't get too greedy & gamble stupidly) cannot fail to accumulate.

 

[arther dailey]

alot of the southerners wont like the cold above yorkshire thats for sure

so i dont think theres much worry there

i am a southener , love it up t north for one reason , decent down to earth normal folk .

 

[addjunkie]

..... except the odds are "dead cert" as long as you can afford to wait long enough (plus they can use the property as collateral, in effect being able to borrow a big part of the initial "bet" back again).

Those already financially secure (as long as they don't get too greedy & gamble stupidly) cannot fail to accumulate.

History tells us this is not always true, in the great depression many very wealthy lost their shirts so to speak when things went financially breasts up. There are always wealthy folk going bump for one reason or another. Usually driven by greed, but you probably dont see it close up. But it is an ongoing thing. Companies are going to the wall all the time, recently Wilko for example, BHS, Debenhams’ to name a few, there are many more, not just in retail.

 

[premmington]

History tells us this is not always true, in the great depression many very wealthy lost their shirts so to speak when things went financially breasts up. There are always wealthy folk going bump for one reason or another. Usually driven by greed, but you probably dont see it close up. But it is an ongoing thing. Companies are going to the wall all the time, recently Wilko for example, BHS, Debenhams’ to name a few, there are many more, not just in retail.

Companies come and go.

Markets go up and down - this is the movement the traders want - with no movement there is no loss or gain for them - no earnings.

 

[GRW]

History tells us this is not always true, in the great depression many very wealthy lost their shirts so to speak when things went financially breasts up. There are always wealthy folk going bump for one reason or another. Usually driven by greed, but you probably dont see it close up. But it is an ongoing thing. Companies are going to the wall all the time, recently Wilko for example, BHS, Debenhams’ to name a few, there are many more, not just in retail.

Invariably when the very wealthy lose it all - its because they invested too heavily & very unwisely (quite possibly poorly advised), & over-exposed themselves to risk chasing gain.
Some people seem to get the notion they are invincible & forget that "the only risk worth taking - is the one you can afford to lose".
And..... while big Companies & Corporations go belly-up - "The Board" rarely lose a cent.

 

[premmington]

Invariably when the very wealthy lose it all - its because they invested too heavily & very unwisely (quite possibly poorly advised), & over-exposed themselves to risk chasing gain.
Some people seem to get the notion they are invincible & forget that "the only risk worth taking - is the one you can afford to lose".
And..... while big Companies & Corporations go belly-up - "The Board" rarely lose a cent.

If you think about it and I can explain it here...

The very wealthy en mass don't loose it.

The money don't go anywhere.

When you hear that billions were lost on the stock exchange - that is a lie...

The stocks had a high sale price and someone sold it for the top price (had the money and did not loose it).

When they were sold at a lower price - buyer lost some money - but the money is still in the system from the earlier sale price.

The money don't get lost or burnt - it just goes from one wealthy person to another - if you understand what I weakly trying to explain.

-------

When people loose money gambling - the money goes to the bookies - it does not evaporate. It just changes ownership...

 

[GRW]

If you think about it and I can explain it here...

The very wealthy en mass don't loose it.

The money don't go anywhere.

When you hear that billions were lost on the stock exchange - that is a lie...

The stocks had a high sale price and someone sold it for the top price (had the money and did not loose it).

When they were sold at a lower price - buyer lost some money - but the money is still in the system from the earlier sale price.

The money don't get lost or burnt - it just goes from one wealthy person to another - if you understand what I weakly trying to explain.

-------

When people loose money gambling - the money goes to the bookies - it does not evaporate. It jsut changes ownership...

Absolutely I get that & agree with it.
What my point was really - was to say that if a wealthy individual manages to become a poor individual - 9x of 10 its because they facilitated that through taking risks that were too large, with way too much of their wealth.
Those who husband their money well, invest sensible amounts into diverse areas, into lower-return but lower risk ventures - very rarely go bust.

 

[Richiew]

Leverage is the key word. Lots of "rich" people are mortgaged up to the eyeballs. Properly rich people own stuff outright. It isolates them from all the financial ups and downs.

 

[premmington]

Absolutely I get that & agree with it.
What my point was really - was to say that if a wealthy individual manages to become a poor individual - 9x of 10 its because they facilitated that through taking risks that were too large, with way too much of their wealth.
Those who husband their money well, invest sensible amounts into diverse areas, into lower-return but lower risk ventures - very rarely go bust.

The art is: Spread it about - "don't put all your eggs in one basket".

Don't expect the chicken to lay daily forever - breed younger chickens to replace older chickens - and it only ever gonna be one egg a day as an average. To get more eggs you gotta have more chickens... But more chickens need more feed.

 

[premmington]

Leverage is the key word. Lots of "rich" people are mortgaged up to the eyeballs. Properly rich people own stuff outright. It isolates them from all the financial ups and downs.

That is such a true statement above.

And even in lower income brackets - if you can pay off your mortgage - not keep moving into bigger houses - not run any debt up - own an older car outright. You are in a better position. More insulated from the financial markets.

 

[addjunkie]

And even in lower income brackets - if you can pay off your mortgage - not keep moving into bigger houses - not run any debt up - own an older car outright. You are in a better position. More insulated from the financial markets.

Spot on

 

[addjunkie]

“Neither a borrower nor a lender be”

Lead a simple life, spend 99p in every pound and you wont go far wrong, where ever you are or what ever your doing!

 

[Bornfree]

I was never paid a big rate through my 20s30s and40s but I did have access to unlimited overtime and I made use of it. 60hour weeks were the minimum I worked and it was reqularly 70 and 80hours. And now at 58 I have a very comfortable life with two properties and no mortgages. Young people to these days don't seem to have the same work ethic.

 

[Richiew]

I'm not surprised young people don't have the same work ethic when you are paying them in depreciating currency.

Average weekly earnings in Great Britain - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of growth in earnings for employees before tax and other deductions from pay.

www.ons.gov.uk

At best, it is a mixed bag. Not conducive for accumulating wealth. Ignore the nominals.