All UK HGVs to be zero emissions from 2040

[Wightsparks]

A quick search turns up different numbers ?

Run on Less with Hydrogen Fuel Cells - RMI

Originally posted on ACT news. Although hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCEVs) have been around since the 1960s, they have recently emerged as a potential solution to decarbonize heavy transport. Nikola Motors just announced it has raised $1 billion in funding for its hydrogen vehicle technology...

rmi.org

"Diesel has an energy density of 45.5 megajoules per kilogram (MJ/kg), slightly lower than gasoline, which has an energy density of 45.8 MJ/kg. By contrast, hydrogen has an energy density of approximately 120 MJ/kg, almost three times more than diesel or gasoline. In electrical terms, the energy density of hydrogen is equal to 33.6 kWh of usable energy per kg, versus diesel which only holds about 12–14 kWh per kg."

or is it the mixing of volume v's weight ?

Like most things - depends on how you present the numbers.

 

[mike os]

Shh @Aerohead @pressbrake1 dont let facts mess with the new religion, you will become the target of ab hominem attacks and get yourselves burned at the stake.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

But but but, where's the fun in that?

 

[mike os]

same volume of diesel has 5000 KWh.

The energy densities are way out... but at least within a single magnitude

and I don’t even want to consider the relative cost per kWh

 

[dobbslc]

Looks fun
Red mode looks interesting...

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Looks fun
Red mode looks interesting...

Best of all. You can rag it around the garden course all weekend and the neighbors would never know.

 

[mike os]

Looks fun
Red mode looks interesting...

Mate of mine does this seriously, he rates the electric ones, but still ordered a new 2t

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Mate of mine does this seriously, he rates the electric ones, but still ordered a new 2t

4k for a gasser Vs 8/10k for an electric doesn't help.

Kids are all electric. I'd pull the trigger tomorrow if I could justify the cost. Barely get time for the hobbies I have. It would be wasted

 

[mike os]

4k for a gasser Vs 8/10k for an electric doesn't help.

Kids are all electric. I'd pull the trigger tomorrow if I could justify the cost. Barely get time for the hobbies I have. It would be wasted

That’s the real problem … no bloody time

 

[Munkul]

A quick search turns up different numbers ?

Run on Less with Hydrogen Fuel Cells - RMI

Originally posted on ACT news. Although hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCEVs) have been around since the 1960s, they have recently emerged as a potential solution to decarbonize heavy transport. Nikola Motors just announced it has raised $1 billion in funding for its hydrogen vehicle technology...

rmi.org

"Diesel has an energy density of 45.5 megajoules per kilogram (MJ/kg), slightly lower than gasoline, which has an energy density of 45.8 MJ/kg. By contrast, hydrogen has an energy density of approximately 120 MJ/kg, almost three times more than diesel or gasoline. In electrical terms, the energy density of hydrogen is equal to 33.6 kWh of usable energy per kg, versus diesel which only holds about 12–14 kWh per kg."

or is it the mixing of volume v's weight ?

Like most things - depends on how you present the numbers.

this is why I specifically said energy density. Sure, hydrogen has a good energy to weight ratio - if you could carry enough of the stuff in a small volume!!! You have to be sensible about it! 700 bar pressure is high enough for large scale practical purposes without losing too much energy compressing the stuff. And lets not get into liquid hydrogen... even the slightest engineering experience should be able to tell you that it is technically, but not practically, feasible.

I respectfully submit that the good folks who provided the info in your link did not present all of the relevant numbers

Now I am not denying that hydrogen has a place. It will work on some mobile plant, such as construction equipment where run time and tank size is not super critical. As JCB have already identified. It may even work at very large scale as liquid hydrogen for bulk transport, after all it's only another step to take from LNG. Quite a large step, mind.

 

[DAPPH]

so not much carbon then transporting in it all from Oz to the UK then
you may have your pressures wrong

Storage of hydrogen as a gas typically requires high-pressure tanks (350–700 bar [5,000–10,000 psi] tank pressure). Storage of hydrogen as a liquid requires cryogenic temperatures because the boiling point of hydrogen at one atmosphere pressure is −252.8°C.

Ok I may have the figures wrong .it might be bars , if you're really interested I'm sure JCB's publicity people ( website ? ) will be able to give you the actual figures for pressure . I was listening to the radio whilst square wheeled when the programme came on so cant put it on replay & I've also been to sleep since then. .

Transporting a liquid hydrogen produced from strong solar energy in hydrogen or nuclear powered ships might be the way they will be doing it. JCB certainly has a handle on it and are running hydrogen gas construction plant trials in novel designs and modified older engined equipments .

Enter JCB's hydrogen journey using a slightly modified internal combustion engine in plant .

JCB.com | Hydrogen

 

[tom 748]

if the train network was half decent, they could cut the lorries by 50%

 

[Aerohead]

Liquid hydrogen packs plenty of energy, it's just that getting T-Boned in a hydrogen powered Ford would make dealing with a flaring-off Tesla battery in an underground car park look like a smoldering fag lying in the street.

H + O = wow

 

[CompoSimmonite]

Liquid hydrogen packs plenty of energy, it's just that getting T-Boned in a hydrogen powered Ford would make dealing with a flaring-off Tesla battery in an underground car park look like a smoldering fag lying in the street.

H + O = wow

No worse than all the LPG and CNG vehicles that are already on the roads

 

[CornishPete]

Actually like the experience driving electric.

Electric trials bikes are awesome once you adjust and found them better to ride. And when I'm riding with the kids they can hear me and I can hear them. There not being smoked out with 2t fumes and maintenance is a lot less

2t fumes and maintenance are all part of the experience!!

Joking aside I think your post demonstrates what I think needs to happen to change people's minds though, coersion and threats will never work for anything whether it's going green, getting jabbed or setting up a democracy! When technology becomes cheaper, better, or more convenient then people will naturally make the switch. We didn't cook with gas cos we ran out of wood, we didn't switch from steam trains cos we ran out of coal and we didn't switch to cars cos we ran out of horses!!

 

[DAPPH]

2t fumes and maintenance are all part of the experience!!

Joking aside I think your post demonstrates what I think needs to happen to change people's minds though, coersion and threats will never work for anything whether it's going green, getting jabbed or setting up a democracy! When technology becomes cheaper, better, or more convenient then people will naturally make the switch. We didn't cook with gas cos we ran out of wood, we didn't switch from steam trains cos we ran out of coal and we didn't switch to cars cos we ran out of horses!!

The first drive I had in a PHEV was a change over to become the driver on a nice straight long road whilst the salesman took up the passenger seat and my wife sat in the back . He said, " Right , once it's clear , floor it " .
I got a slight wheel squeal and it shot off like a rocket .. like something only a three or four litre automatic did back then.

Yes I was mightily impressed so was my much younger wife who used to love tearing about in a proper Mini 1,000 cc Mk 4 ( IIRC) .
We got one 10 days later in April 2015 and don't regret it on iota .

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

This sums up Cop for me.

View attachment 319005

See

India closes coal-fired plants as New Delhi is smothered in toxic smog

Schools shut and construction work banned in city and surrounding region that are choking on pollution

www.ft.com

******* into a force 9 gale and hoping we don't get out trousers wet

 

[mike os]

This sums up Cop for me.

View attachment 319005

More this for me , only less useful product. Just a bunch of privileged Karen’s having a government paid jolly

 

[Munkul]

That is an impressively useful pile of crap, unlike COP.

Especially this year with fertiliser prices!

 

[The Artilleryman]

More this for me

View attachment 319700

I thought direct injection (or whatever the correct term is), was supposed to cut down the smell etc. of muck spreading, they've just spent 2 days on the other side of the main road and the country smell is now getting our bungalow.