All Positions Electrode Recommendation for AC Welder.

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Just welded some jack legs onto my trailer, tonight with 2.4 mm SIP Rutile electrodes, because they were to hand.

I will freely admit to being a bit out of practice with Vertical Uphill, and working in constrained areas didn't help, there was much gouging of roots and reworking as I did the first one.

But by the time I got my hand in again I remembered why those SIP electrodes were to hand... Their claim to be all positions electrodes is only true in so much as they run equally badly in all positions.

I need to run some short overhead welds to finish the job off in a really tight position, and am not at all confident of being able to run them with what I have.

A recommendation for a good general purpose electrode which runs well on an AC welder (Oil Cooled Oxford) and has fast-freezing slag would be much appreciated.

Edit: I think I had some Hilco Brown's previously which were a joy to use, but looking for them online I can only seem to buy in 10kg cartons or by the pallet, which would be overkill for the amount of work I do really. If anyone knows where I could buy them by the 2.5kg box, it would be just the job.

 

[leadpig]

I had some good results with 6010, but that's dc only.
6011 is ac/dc , so that should do

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I had some good results with 6010, but that's dc only.
6011 is ac/dc , so that should do

Any specific recommendations?

It might just be having got used to the wild profusion of different "6013" electrodes we seem to prefer in the UK/Europe for everything which doesn't need low-hydrogen, but it has always seemed like what name and brand of electrode you're running does make a meaningful difference.

 

[zzr1200]

Oerlikon Fincord M ( all position 6013), if you can find them at a senible price.

At least there's no storage of welding suppliers in Sheffield, so you should be ok.

 

[Turbo]

I would doubt that an oil cooled oxford would run a 6011 rod & they're not easy to find in the UK either.

My recommendation would be a 7018 from any of the quality suppliers like oerlikon or bohler fox. Honestly, once you've got used to starting them you'll never use a 6013 again!

 

[Smallfry]

Magmaweld ESR 11

Not a professional, but these were recommended to me by someone who is, and are the best rods I have ever used, not that I have tried them all by any means.

 

[Muddleengineer]

+1 for Magmaweld esr11 6013.

 

[leadpig]

Any specific recommendations?

It might just be having got used to the wild profusion of different "6013" electrodes we seem to prefer in the UK/Europe for everything which doesn't need low-hydrogen, but it has always seemed like what name and brand of electrode you're running does make a meaningful difference.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

At least there's no storage of welding suppliers in Sheffield, so you should be ok.

This is true, I popped into one of the local ones this morning before starting work.

They sold me a 2kg pack of Hilco Red Extra which are apparently the nicest running rods they know for an AC transformer type welder.

I also picked up a 1KG pack of Nikko E6011, as something of a curiosity.

Oerlikon Fincord M ( all position 6013), if you can find them at a senible price.

Magmaweld ESR 11

Both hit the same issue as the Hilco Brown, I couldn't get them in smaller quantities (at least from that supplier).

Given the multiple recommendations I have ordered a 1Kg pack of Magmaweld ESR11 online.

I would doubt that an oil cooled oxford would run a 6011 rod & they're not easy to find in the UK either.

What makes you say that?

With 180A @ 80V OCV I would have thought it would be ok with most AC rods, or is it a case of the arc just not being all that stable when used with AC despite technically being suitable.

Given I have some, I guess I will find out for myself soon enough.

My recommendation would be a 7018 from any of the quality suppliers like oerlikon or bohler fox. Honestly, once you've got used to starting them you'll never use a 6013 again!

I have always veered away from low hydrogen rods on the basis that I don't arc weld that frequently and wouldn't be able to preserve them effectively between uses.

Assuming you don't actually need the low hydrogen properties in a weld, can you get away with just baking what you need before welding, or do they actually need to stay dry until use to perform correctly?



I will probably do some test coupons with the various electrodes I've acquired on Overhead/ Horizontal Lap Fillet which replicates what I need to do, then compare the results, and finish the job over the bank holiday weekend with whatever works best.

If they make as much of a difference as I'm expecting, I may also gouge back some of the more embarrassing caps I did last night and re-do them better. I was already flagging by the time I'd managed to run a solid root for everything and some of the caps are frankly a bit s**t.

 

[zzr1200]

I keep my rods by the hot water tank in the airing cupboard, if they're been opened or the plastic wrap on the pack is broken. I prefer 7018 to be heated in the rod oven if possible.

I find 7018 harder to start and produce a porous weld if left in the garage for a while.

 

[E T]

A recommendation for a good general purpose electrode which runs well on an AC welder (Oil Cooled Oxford) and has fast-freezing slag would be much appreciated.

If you don't want low hydrogen rods then try Lincoln Supra 6012.
Good all position rod. Also vertical down.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

I'd say 7018,my favourite being bohler fox ev50. However I think 7016 are more suited to ac, but my memory may be wrong!

 

[Turbo]

I have always veered away from low hydrogen rods on the basis that I don't arc weld that frequently and wouldn't be able to preserve them effectively between uses.

Assuming you don't actually need the low hydrogen properties in a weld, can you get away with just baking what you need before welding, or do they actually need to stay dry until use to perform correctly?

The bulk of my rods are kept in the hotpress & I keep around 1kg of each in the workshop in sealed plastic tubes to keep them dry. I don't do any welding that requires the lo-hi properties of a 7018 but the other characteristics make them a dream to use, especially for vertical & overhead as they are a fast freezing rod. They're very forgiving for incorrect rod angle & unless you are a complete norbert you'll not get a slag trap.

 

[Turbo]

I'd say 7018,my favourite being bohler fox ev50. However I think 7016 are more suited to ac, but my memory may be wrong!

I tried some 7016's recently & I really liked them. Same as a 7018 but with less flux making them thinner & more suitable for root runs in pipework. Less flux also means easier restriking.

 

[Erie Fred]

7014 runs good uphill, too much slag for down hill.

 

[James1979]

I'd say 7018,my favourite being bohler fox ev50. However I think 7016 are more suited to ac, but my memory may be wrong!

Ditto
Not bad value either

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

So a couple of images comparing my results with the Hilco Red and Nikko E6011 (the Magmaweld hasn't arrived yet).

5mm steel, unprepared, running 3.2mm rods at 50V, 140A

First the Hilco,
Attempt 1

Attempt 2

Then the E6011,
Attempt 1

Attempt 2

I could clearly do with some more practice in the overhead position, and won't bother cutting them up as both have several visual defects, but there's a clear winner of the two.


The 6011 (at least at 50V, might be worth trying at 80V) needs an extremely tight arc, and combined with the fast freezing behaviour is very prone to sticking the electrode.

I did a few welds in flat position with it and could probably get used to it, the penetration and arc force are both nice to have in the arsenal, but my skills have atrophied to the point that it's going to need some practice.


The Red Extra was much more stable and struck a really good balance between the freezing behaviour and not sticking, allowing me to be a bit more confident with my arc length.

 

[Erie Fred]

Why do you need to hold such a tight arc ?
You've trapped slag on the one pix, maybe a little longer arc would help you see the puddle, see the wetting up on both sides, and float out any junk.
Your not going to get as nice smooth ripples on 6011 as you would on 6013/7014/7018

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Why do you need to hold such a tight arc ?
You've trapped slag on the one pix, maybe a little longer arc would help you see the puddle, see the wetting up on both sides, and float out any junk.
Your not going to get as nice smooth ripples on 6011 as you would on 6013/7014/7018

If you look carefully there's trapped slag somewhere in 3 of 4 welds, like I said all 4 welds would fail on visual defects alone, it's just a question of severity...

I needed to hold a super tight arc with the 6011 just to keep the arc lit, so poor visibility of the puddle definitely contributed to how bad those two are, especially as being unable to vary the arc length at all makes it hard to control the heat input and let the puddle freeze.

Might be worth upping the voltage with the 6011 and trying again, to see if that increases the arc stability any.

By contrast the Red Extra allowed me to hold a slightly longer arc and get a decent view of the puddle, the obvious trapped slag in attempt 2 there is just me being rusty with my stinger manipulation and cocking it up.



Either way, my experience is that if my arc isn't pretty tight when welding overhead (the welds are all done in PD/4F position just flipped around for photographing) it just doesn't get any root penetration and the metal deposition is uneven leaving the vertical toe short or even unfused.

 

[Erie Fred]

If you look carefully there's trapped slag somewhere in 3 of 4 welds, like I said all 4 welds would fail on visual defects alone, it's just a question of severity...

I needed to hold a super tight arc with the 6011 just to keep the arc lit, so poor visibility of the puddle definitely contributed to how bad those two are, especially as being unable to vary the arc length at all makes it hard to control the heat input and let the puddle freeze.

Might be worth upping the voltage with the 6011 and trying again, to see if that increases the arc stability any.

By contrast the Red Extra allowed me to hold a slightly longer arc and get a decent view of the puddle, the obvious trapped slag in attempt 2 there is just me being rusty with my stinger manipulation and cocking it up.



Either way, my experience is that if my arc isn't pretty tight when welding overhead (the welds are all done in PD/4F position just flipped around for photographing) it just doesn't get any root penetration and the metal deposition is uneven leaving the vertical toe short or even unfused.

Yes, try a higher voltage if you can.